Voice registers

[alanp]

Perhaps it's a NZ church thing, but there's something I've noticed...

In a normal church setting, the predominant voicing of the singing (PA set aside) will be a female mezzo-soprano register. Men typically will be very quiet, and in a higher frequency.

But...

But...

If you assemble the men (untrained vocalists) in a group with no women around, they will sing LOUDLY, and their voices will drop several semi-tones. The bass and the force will shake your bones, in a small room.

Has anyone else noticed this at all?

[hoodoo]

Never been to church, no plans to go, so i can't answer your question mate, but i do have one for you. There seems to be of late a fair few posts that involve religion. Is there some connection with the church and pedal building? Serious question. 

[spaceboss]

Never been to church, no plans to go, so i can't answer your question mate, but i do have one for you. There seems to be of late a fair few posts that involve religion. Is there some connection with the church and pedal building? Serious question. 

Why should it matter? 

These forums appear to have folks of all different stripes actively participating. One of the best things about this forum especially is the level of respect and willingness to become friends with people of different backgrounds. I'm not religious, and I found the question to be interesting.

[jkokura]

Never been to church, no plans to go, so i can't answer your question mate, but i do have one for you. There seems to be of late a fair few posts that involve religion. Is there some connection with the church and pedal building? Serious question. 

It doesn't look to me like he's making a post about Religion, but about singing and vocal registers. He's noticed it because of his attendance at a church, but it doesn't make this post about religion.

Also, talking about religion is not against the rules here. Unlike some other forums, people are free to discuss what they would like to, as long as it's civil.

Please, for the sake of forum coolness everyone, if you disagree or want to argue or protest something, choose not to post. Don't hit the send button on a thread. Instead, send me, or Brian, or Ian (moderating team) a message. We'll happily help you out, but don't argue or stir things up.

(Not that you were hoodoo, but rather, it's a public request).

Jacob

[jkokura]

If you assemble the men (untrained vocalists) in a group with no women around, they will sing LOUDLY, and their voices will drop several semi-tones. The bass and the force will shake your bones, in a small room.

I will say that picking vocal ranges is a skill that many praise leaders lack. Many trained, or even semi trained singers don't realize that most of the P&W music available is set to ranges that 'average' people really struggle with. We don't sing like we used to, with hymnals or sheet music in front of us, which literally shows us the notes we're singing. Instead, we are all forced to 'learn by ear' and follow along with a singer who might be singing in a key or register we're not able to sing with. Few people have the training and ability to follow effectively, especially if we're unfamiliar with the song's melody in the first place.

I remember distinctly being a young teen and attending a large Men's event which also featured some accapella singing. Having nearly 80,000 men in one location all singing the same hymn, in the most effective key for an average male register... Gave me goosebumps just remembering that moment nearly 20 years past.

Jacob

[RobA]

Never been to church, no plans to go, so i can't answer your question mate, but i do have one for you. There seems to be of late a fair few posts that involve religion. Is there some connection with the church and pedal building? Serious question. 

Sure there's a connection. There's been a major shift in the way music is included in many churches since I was a kid. Just look into the marketing of many guitar/amp/pedal manufacturers and you can see that it's a big market. A couple of weeks ago I went to a friend's son's bar mitzvah. I was surprised when both the cantor and the rabbi used acoustic guitars throughout. It was interesting. The connection between spirituality in any form and music is as old as the mind of humans. The guitar in church is just a newer expression of that.

[jkokura]

Yeah, I'll echo that. Spend any time on TGP, and you'll see that especially the American Praise and Worship guitarists are a bit obsessed with finding the best/greatest pedal combo for their playing.

It's surprising, but I'll be the most common source of live pop rock music in North America is found in the Church now.

Jacob

[pickdropper]

Perhaps it's a NZ church thing, but there's something I've noticed...

In a normal church setting, the predominant voicing of the singing (PA set aside) will be a female mezzo-soprano register. Men typically will be very quiet, and in a higher frequency.

But...

But...

If you assemble the men (untrained vocalists) in a group with no women around, they will sing LOUDLY, and their voices will drop several semi-tones. The bass and the force will shake your bones, in a small room.

Has anyone else noticed this at all?

From my experience, it really depends on a number of factors:

1.)  Type of music: When I was in high school, I sang in an A Capella choir, a small Jazz ensemble and sang a little bit with our school's gospel choir.  I sang 2nd bass (lower) in all of them.  In the A Capella choir and the Jazz choir, we had a fairly balanced sound.  The vocal parts ran the gamut from high to low and the sopranos were reigned in by the conductor to keep everything on keel.  The gospel choir was a bit different.  That choir was about praise and spirit and everybody was encouraged to just belt it out.  The soprano, alto and tenor parts were usually in the upper part of the range while the bass parts were very very low.  Even though I sang second bass, it was very difficult to get the same kind of power on my voice when singing that the other parts did.

2.)  Personnel Balance - It's not uncommon for there to be more women than men in choirs.  That was also a big part of the problem with the Gospel choir I was in.  The women outnumbered the men 2-1 (or more) and the tenors outnumbered the basses.  As far as I remember (and I could be wrong), Gospel was generally open for anybody who wanted to join as long as they could sing well enough.  For the A Capella choir and Jazz ensemble, the spots were limited.  Many more girls tried out, but enough men tried out to keep the overall units balanced.  We even were fairly balanced between soprano & mezzo-soprano, bass & baritone, etc.

3.)  Room Acoustics - These play a major part in low frequency reinforcement.  A squarish room with even dimensions will have more standing waves, which will reinforce the low end.  With the A Capella choir, we got to go on a tour of Europe for a couple of weeks, singing in old cathedrals.  The sound varied quite a bit from venue to venue.  Those old churches certainly weren't comfortable to sit in, but with all of the hard surfaces, they certainly sounded fantastic acoustically.

Certainly, your observations could also be true that the men sing louder when the women aren't around.

[playpunk]

In my experience, men tend to enjoy singing hymns in their lower register more than other praise songs. I worked at an all-boys camp, and much of the singing there was done from a hymnal, and started by a gentleman with perfect (or nearly perfect) pitch, in dude keys. That place was loud.

Additionally, I think that most guys feel most comfortable in the company of other men, so they tend to sing louder in those settings.

Then again, I'm a tenor, and I prefer to sing in my middle/middle high register, so I don't know how you manly men with deep voices can sing so low.

[jimilee]

Has anyone noticed this.... When running sound for said choirs, men complain that their wives can't hear them specifically , to which I reply of course not, that's the idea when singing in a choir, and women wish not to be heard and request the mics on their side to be turned down.

[billstein]

If you assemble the men (untrained vocalists) in a group with no women around, they will sing LOUDLY, and their voices will drop several semi-tones. The bass and the force will shake your bones, in a small room.

I will say that picking vocal ranges is a skill that many praise leaders lack. Many trained, or even semi trained singers don't realize that most of the P&W music available is set to ranges that 'average' people really struggle with. We don't sing like we used to, with hymnals or sheet music in front of us, which literally shows us the notes we're singing. Instead, we are all forced to 'learn by ear' and follow along with a singer who might be singing in a key or register we're not able to sing with. Few people have the training and ability to follow effectively, especially if we're unfamiliar with the song's melody in the first place.

I remember distinctly being a young teen and attending a large Men's event which also featured some accapella singing. Having nearly 80,000 men in one location all singing the same hymn, in the most effective key for an average male register... Gave me goosebumps just remembering that moment nearly 20 years past.

Jacob

I had that same experience in a Desiring God Pastor's conference a couple years ago. A large auditorium filled mostly with men singing those great hymns. Like you said, still gives me chills thinking about it. I looked around and thought "here is a foretaste of the joy of heaven!"

[aballen]

I suspect their wives can hear them... and just don't want to say.  "Yes, you sound terrible" 

Has anyone noticed this.... When running sound for said choirs, men complain that their wives can't hear them specifically , to which I reply of course not, that's the idea when singing in a choir, and women wish not to be heard and request the mics on their side to be turned down.