I'm seeking a magical pedal that may not exist. I need help.

[midwayfair]

nice guy, i could be a total dirt-bag for all he knows....

I don't think that. This is actually karma for the time I picked John Lyons's brain about a custom fuzz and then ended up buying from someone else after he patiently explained a better way to do things.

However, I do want to address this:

If it sounds like a good idea to you, slap one together for me in a box and I'll pay you for parts twice over so you can build another for the next guy who wants his guitar to sound horrible.   

People who don't build pedals or haven't done independent contractor work or any other form of self-employment usually don't realize a lot of costs associated with something. So I'm not berating you in the following paragraph but rather informing you why the above statement was insensitive and even insulting.

First: There was no way in hell you were getting a custom built circuit designed to emulate a sound you specified for double the cost of parts (about $50-60). The general rule for building a pedal is triple the cost of parts, because things like taxes and overhead exist. And that's for a pedal that has already had the R&D done. Developing a circuit takes time. Double the cost of parts in this case doesn't even get me into the black on costs alone, never mind actually paying myself for my time. Skilled labor is EXPENSIVE and time is not free. This isn't my day job by any stretch of the imagination, but I have worked hard to gain what (little) knowledge I have of electronics. The reason I was able to get as close as I did in only three hours is that I have a lot of experience tweaking transistor-based circuits to the point where I was able to visualize the circuit before I even got to the breadboard, and I knew what to change to get closer and handle problems that cropped up along the way (like the need to buffer the input). So let's talk about all the time involved in producing a new pedal from scratch.

I spent three and a half hours the other night getting something close, which is an unusually short time spent breadboarding something new, but that doesn't mean the circuit was done. Even assuming I didn't need to revisit the breadboard to improve on the idea (the need for which is highly likely), there are numerous other steps that need to be taken.

The next step that needs to be taken is to create a layout. Even at my fastest, I can't do that in less than three hours (for reference, the most recent PCB layout I created for a pedal I'd already built on perfboard, including redrawing the schematic in Eagle, took me eight hours ... a perfboard layout without a schematic is about half that). Then the layout needs to be verified. I can't give a customer the first copy of a circuit on perfboard because chances are I need to use more than a few sockets. So the PCB needs to be built twice. Even a simple circuit like this is likely to run me two hours the first time and an hour and a half thereafter, assuming I got the layout correct. Plus let's say a half hour verifying that it works. So that's another three and a half hours.

Then your circuit needs to be put in an enclosure. This process takes about an hour. The enclosure needs to be decorated. This takes time depending on what the customer wants it to look like, but an hour for the simplest design is the least it's ever taken me once clear coating is factored in. Some enclosures have taken me four hours or more (the enclosure for the Blue Warbler takes me three hours and I've painted the same design multiple times).

So start to finish, the absolute minimum amount of hours I could have put into building you the first copy of a new pedal is 13-17 hours, without any further work on the breadboard. Presumably I can't expect to recoup all of that, but even paying myself minimum wage would put the cost above $100 before any material costs are factored in.

The reason you don't pay this much for every pedal built by hand is that most builders spread the R&D costs -- which can be ruinously expensive compared to the mere 13 hours I've described above -- over dozens or even hundreds of builds. Research and Development is an investment. Even to sell you this pedal for about the price of your impulse buy to Basic Audio (the Futureman is one of his least expensive pedals, by the way) I would need to have some evidence that this is a sound many people want and are willing to pay money for. I don't have evidence of that, despite your speculation. (Though other people are certainly better at marketting and they'd probably find a way to make TGPers drool.) For comparison, I charge $125 for a Clipper Ship OD, which I'm able to do because I developed the circuit as a DIY build, and building a couple for other people is just an ancillary benefit, and because it's a very good sounding overdrive that I can expect more than a handful of people to want.

But wait, you say, didn't you just breadboard it because it was fun?

Yes. Of course. It's not like we had a contract, and I saw reproducing a sound like that as an interesting challenge. But as a fellow musician, I think you can understand that just because something is fun or enjoyable that it should be done for free. Doing what you love doesn't mean doing it for nothing.

Also, a lot of people come to DIY sites looking for cheap pedals. They mistake the common occurrence of DIYers cheaply unloading pedals that they don't want anymore to other DIYers for an indication that someone will build a pedal from scratch for someone else for nothing. It's really a sad expectation. If we were close friends, you'd probably get a pedal for parts and a beer. But I don't know you and you just posted an interesting problem to be solved.

All that said, I have a schematic drawn, and I'll post it when I get around to it. But you might want to reconsider what your expectations were as far as having this pedal built for you.

Also, the Futureman is a great pedal. It's more than just a Colorsound Overdriver clone. John Lyons doesn't just copy vintage circuits and call it a day. It would not have been my first choice of his pedals -- I think the Squarewave gets a little closer. Perhaps not coincidentally, there are a couple similarities between the Squarewave schematic and what I came up with for the Soundcard fuzz, but also a lot of differences. Which just goes to reiterate that there is more than one way to produce any particular kind of distortion.

[TexasTwang]

thanks for explaining to me the time and effort that you have put into, and may have further put into this.  I did not mean to offend you.  I had no clue that this could possibly turn into something so labor intensive when you mentioned you would be breadboarding a circuit.

It's true, in my "ignorance" I thought you were just planning on tweaking a circuit because it was interesting.  I had no idea this could have turned into something that would require so much of your time and resource.

I didnt come here looking for a cheap pedal, I simply wanted to know how to cop a tone.  I now understand how much time, effort, and skill go into this stuff.  And for that, I thank you.

It's been an eye-opener for sure. 

[midwayfair]

thanks for explaining to me the time and effort that you have put into, and may have further put into this.  I did not mean to offend you.  I had no clue that this could possibly turn into something so labor intensive when you mentioned you would be breadboarding a circuit.

It's true, in my "ignorance" I thought you were just planning on tweaking a circuit because it was interesting.  I had no idea this could have turned into something that would require so much of your time and resource.

I didnt come here looking for a cheap pedal, I simply wanted to know how to cop a tone.  I now understand how much time, effort, and skill go into this stuff.  And for that, I thank you.

It's been an eye-opener for sure.

Keep in mind too that before I breadboarded it and you replied, there was no talk of anyone buying something. I didn't breadboard it with the intention of selling it to you (thus my first couple posts explaining how to go about designing it yourself). I was only responding the to comment quoted. Somehow that aspect got lost when I was typing the spiel above. I'm far more interested in building for myself and sharing knowledge with others to do the same than I am about building for others (even though I do that occasionally).

Like I said, no hard feelings. Stick around the forum, maybe you'll get the bug to build.

Here's the schematic:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=11189.0

[TexasTwang]

Hi Midway, and the rest of y'all.

The Futureman NAILS IT!  I mean...  exactly.  It only took about 15 minutes for me to hit the sweet spot.  I dialed in the tone on "planned communities" and I couldn't be happier.

I'm pretty sure it's mainly because of two things.  One of them is the EQ.  I can get in this zone with it where its like opposite sides of the mid section are blending nicely to give it that "honk", if that makes sense...

And the OD, or FUZZ, whatever it is, it's just like the demos when dialed down to about 9:30.  The fuzz drives on the attack it seems and dies pretty quickly, it's amazing.

Maybe I'll make a demo of it and throw it up on youtube.  I'll let you guys know if I do.

Thanks.