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"Wicked Switches" - Electronic switches

Started by Ettore_M, August 03, 2013, 05:07:36 PM

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Ettore_M

August 03, 2013, 05:07:36 PM Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 03:14:14 PM by Ettore_M
Hi guys! Long time, no see! There's been a lot of time since I posted a new thread.

To begin with, I've been reading a lot about alternate solution for switching (for example, uC - Relays, Millenium Bypass). The uC - Relay solution with a momentary stomp switch seems like the most trusty, because you won't expect it to break like ever. That's really good. But the cost of uC and relay is a little high, don't you think?

So, we want something cheaper and more available. And I thought: "Why not using logic gates to drive the relay?". You know, logic NOTs, Flip - Flops, etc.

In my Google quest of searching for a circuit like this, I found this article by The Tone God about electronic switches: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/switches/switches.html.
And I am "Holy Cow! That's it!". For me, it seems perfect!

But then again, I have never seen a switch like this in a DIY pedal.

So, the question is why don't we use them more often. They're cheap (The two ICs needed: CD40106 & CD4066 cost something like $0.70), and a daughterboard for this can be made extremely small with the use of SMD ICs.

Start sharing your opinion!  ;D

Hector
" I would first try what I call The American Approach, which is simply this: "If X is good, then 2X simply HAS TO BE twice as good."  ;D "
- Culturejam

crashguitar

#1
August 03, 2013, 10:10:11 PM
I have been using them. I like them, but they do take up space. I have not been successful in getting a better layout yet. I would love to someday get a nice tight layout that would fit better and make the connections less spaghetti-like. That could be my own ineptness, though.

There was some discussion of this on another thread: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=9733.0

Chad

Ettore_M

#2
August 03, 2013, 10:50:32 PM
Oh s**t! I missed too many things all this time I was away! So pissed off!
But now I have a lead on this. Thank you, Chad!
So, you do like them. Do they work fine, stable? Did you have any problems?
I don't think PCB size is an issue. At least for me. I'll go ahead and try a single-sided etchable layout using SMD. I expect the size will drop down to at least 2.5cm x 2.5cm. I already did a layout using through-hole parts which is approximately 3cm x 3.7cm. I'll make a new topic for it in the Member Projects forum, when I think it's good enough to publish.
Finally, I think it's the cheapest solution around for silent and durable switching. I'll see what others think about.
Thanks again,Chad!

Hector
" I would first try what I call The American Approach, which is simply this: "If X is good, then 2X simply HAS TO BE twice as good."  ;D "
- Culturejam

Cortexturizer

#3
August 03, 2013, 10:59:56 PM
I am also about to attempt three of these in a single pedal...I will let you know the outcome :)
https://kuatodesign.blogspot.com - thoughts on some pedals I made
https://soundcloud.com/kuato-design-stompboxes - sounds and jams

Ettore_M

#4
August 03, 2013, 11:09:47 PM Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 11:11:39 PM by Ettore_M
Quote from: Cortexturizer on August 03, 2013, 10:59:56 PM
I am also about to attempt three of these in a single pedal...I will let you know the outcome :)
3 of these?? I'm really interested! Really interested for the PCB you used and its size. I'm really struggling to drop my single-sided TH layout below 3cm x 3.7cm! I need to get this smaller, so it can be DIYable! ;)

Hector
" I would first try what I call The American Approach, which is simply this: "If X is good, then 2X simply HAS TO BE twice as good."  ;D "
- Culturejam

croquet hoop

#5
August 03, 2013, 11:24:59 PM
Do you think double-sided boards (fabbed by OSH Park for instance) could help reduce the size even more ? I'd have a go at it with Eagle, but I'm not sure I'm reading the schematics correctly. Anyway, I'm quite interested in this solution as well.

Ettore_M

#6
August 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AM
Quote from: croquet hoop on August 03, 2013, 11:24:59 PM
Do you think double-sided boards (fabbed by OSH Park for instance) could help reduce the size even more ? I'd have a go at it with Eagle, but I'm not sure I'm reading the schematics correctly. Anyway, I'm quite interested in this solution as well.
Sure, with double sided and SMD, this will be like 2cm x 2cm, I believe. Supposing you lay it out correctly! ;)
I just insist on the single-sided, because I want it to be DIYable. Then again, who is etching PCBs now? Everybody's fabbing their own. But I would like to keep the DIY spirit alive here! ;)

So guys, I managed to shrink a single-sided TH layout to 3cm x 3.4cm. I don't think it's getting smaller. What do you think? Is it small enough?

Hector
" I would first try what I call The American Approach, which is simply this: "If X is good, then 2X simply HAS TO BE twice as good."  ;D "
- Culturejam

ThePastRecedes

#7
August 04, 2013, 02:24:08 AM
I build stuff for myself, sometimes I do 1 offs, I label them as HornBlende Audio.

alanp

#8
August 04, 2013, 02:31:01 AM
If a board could be laid out with similar dimensions to Plesur's daughterboard in his feta complis (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8081.0), I'd be interesting in getting half a dozen. Maybe with audio jacks mounted on it (height is not dependant on the 3pdt any more, remember) as well.
"A man is not dead while his name is still spoken."
- Terry Pratchett
My OSHpark shared projects
My website

derevaun

#9
August 04, 2013, 02:45:41 AM
This would be a nice setup for top mounted jacks--ostensibly it could shorten wire runs in that situation. I don't have much confidence in my understanding of what's what on the schematic either, but I figure to take a crack at it in Eagle if seeing the actual parts in the schematic editor clears it up.

Ettore_M

#10
August 04, 2013, 09:27:48 AM
Quote from: alanp on August 04, 2013, 02:31:01 AM
If a board could be laid out with similar dimensions to Plesur's daughterboard in his feta complis (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8081.0), I'd be interesting in getting half a dozen. Maybe with audio jacks mounted on it (height is not dependant on the 3pdt any more, remember) as well.
In my opinion, the way to go is this one like Plesur's. A daugtherboard. Not with audio and DC jacks mounted, because you lose the freedom of drilling the enclosure wherever you want. It's more "modular" this way.
I think it can be done this small with fabbed, double-sided TH layout. But it would be even smaller if you used SMD ICs mounted on each side of the board. This would be awesome. I try and layout a couple versions on Eagle, and I'll make a new topic in the Member Projects forum to share them with you. ;)

Hector
" I would first try what I call The American Approach, which is simply this: "If X is good, then 2X simply HAS TO BE twice as good."  ;D "
- Culturejam

Ettore_M

#11
August 04, 2013, 09:37:23 AM
Quote from: ThePastRecedes on August 04, 2013, 02:24:08 AM
Have you seen this? It may interest you.



http://www.fredric.co.uk/blog/134-Using-a-latching-relay-driver-for-true-bypass
It may interest me, but no. I'm not that interested in relays. They seem to be really expensive, from what I've seen. :(
So, it's a no go. Thanks anyway!

Hector
" I would first try what I call The American Approach, which is simply this: "If X is good, then 2X simply HAS TO BE twice as good."  ;D "
- Culturejam

croquet hoop

#12
August 04, 2013, 01:21:15 PM
Quote from: Ettore_M on August 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AMSure, with double sided and SMD, this will be like 2cm x 2cm, I believe. Supposing you lay it out correctly! ;)
I just insist on the single-sided, because I want it to be DIYable. Then again, who is etching PCBs now? Everybody's fabbing their own. But I would like to keep the DIY spirit alive here! ;)

Yes, I was suggesting double-sided to reduce size to a minimum (and OSH Park's prices would be interesting for non-etchers given the size of the board), but only as an alternative to the etchable thru-hole layout, not as the best possible choice.

Quote from: Ettore_M on August 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AMSo guys, I managed to shrink a single-sided TH layout to 3cm x 3.4cm. I don't think it's getting smaller. What do you think? Is it small enough?

It should be perfect for most enclosures (except 1590A's). I'll be adding the necessary IC's to my next order, can't wait to try it!

Ettore_M

#13
August 04, 2013, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: croquet hoop on August 04, 2013, 01:21:15 PM
Quote from: Ettore_M on August 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AMSure, with double sided and SMD, this will be like 2cm x 2cm, I believe. Supposing you lay it out correctly! ;)
I just insist on the single-sided, because I want it to be DIYable. Then again, who is etching PCBs now? Everybody's fabbing their own. But I would like to keep the DIY spirit alive here! ;)

Yes, I was suggesting double-sided to reduce size to a minimum (and OSH Park's prices would be interesting for non-etchers given the size of the board), but only as an alternative to the etchable thru-hole layout, not as the best possible choice.
Sorry if I said that wrong. I don't even think that etching is the best solution, only that I think this is the DIY way.
But I'm in for a double-sided layout. In fact, I'm already working on it. I'll go the Plesur's way, a little daughterboard, mounted beside the momentary stomp. Not on the momentary.
So, guys, the question now is if you're in for a SMD challenge. This will get the board even smaller. It may be small enough for a 1590A. Are you in? I'll maybe do 3 layouts either way: a etchable TH single-sided, a double-sided TH, and a double-sided SMD.

Hector
" I would first try what I call The American Approach, which is simply this: "If X is good, then 2X simply HAS TO BE twice as good."  ;D "
- Culturejam

hammerheadmusicman

#14
August 04, 2013, 03:29:58 PM
Ill take the SMD challenge!

George
I play Guitar, and Build Stuff..
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