Tube amps / tube rectifiers sound better?

[Kinki fuzz]

Hey, people say amps with tube rectifier (compared to solid state) sound better. Just better.

I don't see how this could happen, I mean is just DC volts to power the rest of the tubes, so anybody knows if there's any black magic on that. My guess is not but hey, I'm here to learn.

[sgmezei]

Here's what I know real quick.

SS rectifier- tighter low end, instant transfer of power, can be higher output

Tube rectifier- creates more sag, looser low end, I noticed when you have it cranked and slam a chord you get a certain "bloom" to the notes as the power tries to keep up. I think this has to do with the power tubes as well.

Both sound good in my tweed deluxe.

[alanp]

Valve rectifiers (tubes are what you get inside car or bike tyres) also drop voltage (up to 70v in some cases, IIRC.) Solid state drop about 0.7V. Valve rectifiers also need a 5V heater winding (depending on the rectifier of choice, possibly a substantial one. My tweed twin has a 5V 6A rectifier heater winding.)

[Vallhagen]

(tubes are what you get inside car or bike tyres)

Funny, i never tried to diy anything in a car tyre. If you sing through it, it should give some tubish effect i guess?! 

"Valve", "tube" or "vacuum tube" are all correct words for those electronic things. I prefer vacuum tube, it kinda opens up for many döts. And i find valves in my car engine

Sorry i am OT.

TS: "people say" a lot... A lot of truth, experience and also myths are floating around. And if a Circuit sounds better than Another -  which sure could be the case in you example - it can depends on more than just changing a few Components around the rectifier. The oldest, most boring, but still useful comment might be: play, listen and make your own opinion:)

But also, put it this way: the first vacuum tube were designed... 100-150 years ago(?). They are PRE-HISTORIC ancient energy-thirsty noisy expensive crap replaced by a couple of generations of semiconductor development.  Yes they are, in all markets with one exception: Analogue sounding stuff, including amlifiers. Its funny isnt it, that over the years, with all research and development done, noone has really come up with the absolute replacement. A tube is a tube and it is better:)

Also; if ears and feeling cant tell: go with placebo! Tubes are HOT. and COOL!

People say... and so do i 

Cheers

[jkokura]

It's spelled 'tire'.

Jacob

[ch1naski]

Personally, valve rectifiers do it for me. More organic, more "sag" .
But ss can be great sounding also. Guess it depends on the feel you require with your style.

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[Kinki fuzz]

I honestly -in my ignorance- thought there wasn't a noticeable difference, so I've learnt something today!!

Of course this is only a part of the amp, but I needed to know if -for the same amp- this was going to make a difference, and if I'm going to build one (we are here to build stuff!!hehe) if the extra money and complexity is worth.

So now I believe is worth, even if it is only to make the comparison!!

[davent]

You can get the same sag with the SS rectification by adding in some series resistance to the power supply. Tube rectification doesn't allow for as large a first cap as when using SS so reducing that as well  may help get you to the sag zone.

dave

edit; Should add that this (sag) only applies to push pull amps as with single ended amps the current draw is constant so unless you're trying to eat up some excess high voltage there really is no point to tube/rec in an SE amp though it does look cool and costs a ton of money more to implement.

[Kinki fuzz]

I'm not very shure yet about what I'm going to do, just gathering information. Definitelly british, probably a 18 watt marshall or maybe something more like a vox AC, that would be cool. I had some crazy ideas like making a 15 watt version of the laney klipp, don't know if it makes sense... in fact don't even know what single ended or push pull mean so... hehe I need to make some questions before I buy the first part"!!

[alanp]

Extremely vague definition -- single ended uses one output valve, push-pull uses two valves (one pushes one side of the output transformer, the other pulls the other side.) Occasionally you get dual single ended amps, with two output valves arranged in a single ended parallel configuration, but they're not that common.

SE normally gets less power. Last I heard, it was the darling of the audiophile valve community (the less powah the better, I have no idea why they think this.) Especially if the valve in question costs a grand each, like the 300B.

PP normally is used to get more power.

[DutchMF]

Guess it depends on the feel you require with your style.

This is probably the best advice in this thread so far. No single one is 'the best', it's what you use it for (and how!) that matters most. Let your ears guide you!

Paul 

[slimtriggers]

You can get the same sag with the SS rectification by adding in some series resistance to the power supply. Tube rectification doesn't allow for as large a first cap as when using SS so reducing that as well  may help get you to the sag zone.

dave

Seems like you could have a couple of resistors on a switch in this case for a "sag/tight" option.  Maybe the best of both worlds?

[davent]

London Power has/had  circuits/kits which allows you to scale the high voltages in the amp, so you can go from microamps of output to full bore, and also dial in the amount of sag you want, Is what i use in my 18watt LiteII.

You can also put in both types of rectification and switch between them but you need to be sure the SS doesn't result in too high high voltages.

dave

[ch1naski]

While it's easy most times to tell the difference in sound between tubes (yes, i said tubes :-)  ) and ss pre-and power sections, to me the rectifier is a whole lot more of a subtle thing.

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[davent]

I'm not very shure yet about what I'm going to do, just gathering information. Definitelly british, probably a 18 watt marshall or maybe something more like a vox AC, that would be cool. I had some crazy ideas like making a 15 watt version of the laney klipp, don't know if it makes sense... in fact don't even know what single ended or push pull mean so... hehe I need to make some questions before I buy the first part"!!

Valve Wizard site is a great one on tube guitar amps, lots of good reading.

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/

To get started, explanations on SE and PP.

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/se.html
http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/pp.html