Parts quality - you get what you pay for (usually)

[gtr2]

After ordering parts from the usual places I've really started noticing where the lower prices = lower quality.  On my last parts orders I didn't buy anything from ______(I'll let you guess ).  Don't get me wrong some of the stuff they sell is great!  Here's my problem with the cheap guys...sorry for the rant   

1. They always send stereo jacks when I order mono.  I don't want stereo!!!!

2. The enclosed jacks are junk, the plastic touches the case instead of the metal and your grounding depends on contacting the inside of the drilled holes.  The stereo jacks have the sleeve terminal sticking up near the nut, then one terminal for ring, and two for tip?,  the tip terminals are confusing because one looks like it goes to the sleeve.  On my last build I troubleshooted for an hour and found that I had grounded the input signal...then I went to bend down the sleeve to solder the ground and the cheap metal snapped.  The solder has a hard time adhering to the lugs on these too.

3. The power jacks - the plastic looks cheap and the metal nut is really poor quality, all to save 35 cents.

4.  The painted case quality is not as good as PPP and they usually have light surface scratching for what ever reason.  Not bad enough to send back but I've brought it to their attention yet I still get pedals with surface scratching.  The powdercoat is not as thick either, on the vintage orange I could still see gray enclosure on the edges.

5. The industrial series footswitches have really, really small lugs; the other 3pdt's are fine but I prefer a switch that has the confidence to put their name on like Cliff

6. Their alpha potentiometers always have a sticky, greasy coating on them which needs removed or the lugs do not solder correctly and you get tacky hands...

7. They don't give the right quantity sometimes.  I ordered four white knobs for someone's build, I got three.  They did send me another 4 for free, but I needed 4 when I ordered 4...

8. The shipping prices are high, and I live in the states.

I spend a lot of time creating a nice finished product and then top it off with poor quality metal and plastic parts to save a few bucks.  I don't think so...  I basically have to use up these crappy things somewhere.  Glad I didn't bulk order.  Sorry, It's my own fault to save a buck or two...

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION AND DOES NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF MADBEAN OR FORUM MEMBERS 

Here's a bump for Small Bear and Pedal Parts Plus, they are usually more, but they get my vote for quality and customer service!

Josh

[jkokura]

Sorry for the bad experience. We all get them. There's another place I ordered parts from (not the same as you) that left a ridiculous bad taste in my mouth, and despite them being the only place to get some stuff, I'll never order there again. I ordered like 90 bucks worth of goods, including 50 feet of good teflon coated wire in a bunch of colours - they sent me 1/4 of my order, and less than 5 feet of the wire I ordered. They took a week to respond to my email about it, and it took me phoning them (long distance Canada to the US on my Cellphone) for them to acknowledge it... Nameless again, but not a big supplier.

I think I know who you're talking about here. I've only made one order from them, and I found the order to be just fine. I didn't find the enclosures to be bad at all, I liked how they packed them and the screws are much better than the New Sensor models. Finishes were nice too. I had a couple comments for you to consider, not telling you you're wrong, but it's what I thought as I read and it might help you look at things in a different light.

1. They always send stereo jacks when I order mono.  I don't want stereo!!!!

Stereo jacks are an 'upgrade' in some senses. You can use a stereo jack where you can use a Mono jack, but you can't use a mono jack in place of a needed stereo. Consider yourself lucky to have a bunch of extra poles. The only time it matters is if you're using PCB mount stuff, and there are only holes for you to use a Mono jack, or if for some reason it's so cramped you can't fit a stereo jack in the place you have, and you need a mono jack for space saving reasons. Otherwise, it's not that big a deal.

[/quote]
2. The enclosed jacks are junk, the plastic touches the case instead of the metal and your grounding depends on contacting the inside of the drilled holes.  The stereo jacks have the sleeve terminal sticking up near the nut, then one terminal for ring, and two for tip?,  the tip terminals are confusing because one looks like it goes to the sleeve.  On my last build I troubleshooted for an hour and found that I had grounded the input signal...then I went to bend down the sleeve to solder the ground and the cheap metal snapped.  The solder has a hard time adhering to the lugs on these too.
[/quote]

This one might come down to a little bit of inexperience on your part. Enclosed jacks are 'usually' supposed to isolate your jack from ground. That's how they operate, so if you're expecting to use enclosed jacks to ground your signal through the enclosure - you're not supposed to have that happen. As for the extra lug - are you sure it's not the 'ring' of the jack you're talking about? Also, lots of enclosed jacks have to lugs for each contact - one on each side. That's right, two ground lugs, two ring lugs, two tip lugs. These are common to enclosed jacks. It gets even more complicated to understand which lug is which when you use switching jacks! Every part should have a data-sheet, including jacks, so email the supplier to see if you can locate it if a simple google search doesn't turn anything up.

Also, about the solder not adhering - this is something I've notice about their open jacks as well. It's very common for solder to not adhere to a surface. Oxidization, residue and polish can interfere with the ability of the solder to properly adhere to any surface - copper or otherwise. It is good practice to do a few different things if you're experiencing problems:

a) Use a small steel wool patch on your PCB, jack, or the lead of a part to remove any residue and create tiny 'grooves' in the surface (just like boots with deep 'groove' provide good traction, these grooves will help your solder adhere). You can also add a little bit of acetone or rubbing alcohol to increase the cleaning power.

b) Use 60/40 rosin core solder. The little bit of rosin in the solder, along with the heat of your iron, cleans the part lead and the PCB pad as you're applying the solder. A clean surface allows better adhesion.

c) If you're really struggling, you can use either rosin paste or better yet use liquid rosin to help clean the surface. You can either apply it with a brush, or tooth pick, or the proper plastic bottle with needle applicator. You only need a VERY small amount. The rosin heats up and cleans the surfaces BEFORE you apply the solder. I'm not sure of the science, but I think it works a little like an acid would, eating away any residue and oxidization and pitting the surface a small amount so that the solder again has something to adhere to properly.

(By the way, using liquid rosin is also VERY helpful when using copper braid to remove solder. it's very, very good for this, and has saved my butt when try to remove parts in the past.)

Jacob

[gtr2]

Thanks for your comments Jacob.  I just would rather have the parts I order.  Having additional lugs are just more areas for something to get messed up or shorted for me.

You're right..  I don't quite understand your take on enclosed jacks.  These are listed as enclosed jacks not isolated jacks.  To me this means that they do not have an open frame, not that they are isolated.  If they were isolated they should be insulated where they mount through the panel I thought or be plastic.  You can buy open frame jacks that are isolated I believe.  I like the "enclosed" jacks to eliminate any unintentional shorting when working in a tight space.  I've always used the switchcraft 111 (mono) and the 112 (stereo).  The plastic enclosure is recessed and the metal frame seats nicely on the case.

The four site enclosures are really nice.  I've just had enough finishing issues that I'm shy to use them for finished enclosures now.  I'll still buy the unfinished ones for sure.

Thanks for the rosin tip for the soldering braid.

I'm using 60/40 now so the steel wool may be the ticket in the jacks.  Definitely gonna do that!

[eniacmike]

I probably typed out a similar post about mammoth when I first ordered from them, but I didn't post it for fear of of being a jerk, but we really should look out for each other.

mammoth is good for price and a little bit faster than small bear for shipping but that is about it.
the 4 site enclosures are very nice, I haven't had any problem with them, their 3pdt's are good quality and a great price. The alpha pots are a great price too, I do get the sticky thing too but I don't have a problem soldering them, and I get sticky alphas from mouser, small bear, and pedal parts plus.

their 1510 davies clones don't cut it for me. The mold looks nice but the set screw uses a hex wrench to set and they strip out very easily. Not to mention it is really hard to fit a hex wrench into reach some knobs where a straight jewelers screw driver can reach a lot easier. Their smaller knobs 1900H (zvex style) are pretty crappy. they are made out of plastic instead of phenolic like the ones zvex uses and they are really soft feeling. the inside is ribbed plastic and they just aren't sturdy. same problem with the set screw using a hex wrench.

The DC power jacks are really crappy the plastic looks really cheap and the metal nut that holds them doesn't really grab like the plastic nuts.

I also ordered some tl082's from mammoth for 50 cents each for an ocd and I ended up getting surface mount tl082's. I was super bummed out and checked the site and they didn't even stock through hole tl082's and that was the ONLY chip they stocked in surface mount on the whole site. When I emailed them they didn't really seem to understand the problem or understand that none of us use surface mount and I told them they should at least have stock photos or links to datasheets. They said they would consider it and I told them I wouldn't shop with them until they updated their website.. they ended up taking my advice and added pics of the IC packages. but that experience along with the sub par knobs and dc jacks made me not want to order from them unless i'm in a pinch for cheap alpha pots fast.

I went back to ordering enclosures/jacks/switches/dc snaps/etc. from pedal parts plus ultimately because they ship really fast for me. I generally get shipping notices early in the morning after I order (I always order through the night) and I get my stuff 3 days after I order. mammoth takes about 5 days, and small bear takes around a week. I order some specific things from small bear like germanium transistors, old stock ic's, diodes, transistors, etc. and I usually order pots there too if I need more than 10 and can get the discount.

[gtr2]

I'm not a jerk, I hope not...I do like their clean and easy to navigate website!     I think it's nice to have more choices with whom to order from, but it stinks when you get something that's below your expectations.

[stecykmi]

I think pots are stored with a sticky lubricant on them to prevent oxidation. I think they come like that from the factory.

[B_of_H]

I've had some issues with grounding and enclosed jacks myself. 

[gtr2]

I think pots are stored with a sticky lubricant on them to prevent oxidation. I think they come like that from the factory.

correct, theirs just seem extra sticky...not a deal beaker for me though...

I've had some issues with grounding and enclosed jacks myself. 

for the jacks I'm talking about or enclosed jacks in general?  I guess I'm wrong on my understanding of the enclosed jacks..  Are they supposed to ground to the case?  I thought they were intended to.

[jkokura]

No, that's what I was saying. Enclosed jacks are isolating. You could get enclosed jacks anywhere, they're going to be isolating.

Jacob

[gtr2]

Sorry I don't wanna beat a dead horse or start a debate.. I just want to understand your view   I listed the picture of the enclosed jack I usually use from small bear.  I pointed a crude arrow to the nickle plated area that grounds to the case.  According to the switchcraft link I provided they can be used as grounding with the nickel version or insulating with the thermoplastic version.  So if this is right that would mean even the enclosed style mammoth sells would not be an insulated jack because the metal bushing/sleeve would ground to the case, but may be intermittent depending on how tight the bushing is to the drilled hole.     I was always under the impression that enclosed only means that the tip/ring/sleeve connections were covered in a protective housing.
http://www.switchcraft.com/productsummary.aspx?Parent=67

[jkokura]

I don't use them, and if I'm honest I was just going by the info provided me elsewhere.

Here's definitive proof. Go get you dmm and test fo continuity between the ground lug and the bushing. That will tell you for sure.

Otherewise we're not going to be able to help you.

Jacob

[gtr2]

I'm fine, I was just confused when you said that enclosed jacks were isolated. I've used the enclosed jacks and open framed and never heard this about the enclosed jacks.  I've never had a problem with open frame or enclosed jacks for other projects and I didn't understand where you were going... 

Just for anyone wondering the multimeter shows continuity on the standard switchcraft 111 (enclosed)and the mammoth enclosed jacks from the bushing to the corresponding lug.  The problem with the mammoth jacks are the only grounding area is the threaded "bushing" section because inside the enclosure the jack's plastic mold touches and the nut touches the paint on the outside.  This created a grounding issue.  Its fine on an unpainted enclosure.  I just wanted others to be aware of this.

[Gyrofist]

Hey guys, just wondering,
I'm new to this whole DIY pedal thing, so I have very little experience with building anything, and I've never had to order in parts. So I just got in an order of parts today from smallbear (fast shipping, which is always good!), and I was just wondering about the pots. Now you say that they have a lubricant on them and that's why they're sticky? Should I clean them then, before soldering? If so, how should I do that? And are there any other parts I should clean beforehand? Sorry about the noobeyness.

[jkokura]

No, you don't need to clean them. You should have no problems at all. It's just something that's annoying to your fingers, but causes them no problems.

There are some things you MAY want to clean - you don't have to. If you have a bit of steel wool around, use it on your PCB, especially if it's a bare copper etch. It just removes some oxidization. The lugs of your jacks, your switch, and your Pots (ironically) can also benefit from this. The steel wool creates very small grooves that will allow your solder to grip the part better.

Another way to clean is to use rosin. We recommend using 60/40 Rosin core solder for this very reason actually. Rosin is a de-oxidant solution that when heated removes any oxidization from a part. That means that when you apply your rosin core solder, the rosin is 'cleaning' the part and the pad as the solder is being melted, then the solder instantly cools onto a (hopefully) clean pad and part. Imagine trying to stick duct tape to a dirty surface. Works for a while right? But put some stress on that duct tape and it won't hold for long. Clean that surface and make sure the duct tape is perfect and you'll have a much better hold right?

Sometimes I find that I need a little extra help for certain parts. 1/4" jack lugs are a good example - sometimes I apply a little liquid solder to the lug FIRST, so that as soon as my iron goes on it's getting cleaned. This is because sometimes the little amount of rosin in the solder isn't enough to properly clean enough of the surface of the lug. Usually the parts from Smallbear are fine in this regard, it's only been recently (since I got jacks from Mammoth) that I've experienced this problem.

Hope that helps. Can't wait to see your first build! If you need any help feel free to make another post, or even send me a message! I'm on here all the time.

Jacob

[Gyrofist]

No, you don't need to clean them. You should have no problems at all. It's just something that's annoying to your fingers, but causes them no problems.

There are some things you MAY want to clean - you don't have to. If you have a bit of steel wool around, use it on your PCB, especially if it's a bare copper etch. It just removes some oxidization. The lugs of your jacks, your switch, and your Pots (ironically) can also benefit from this. The steel wool creates very small grooves that will allow your solder to grip the part better.

Another way to clean is to use rosin. We recommend using 60/40 Rosin core solder for this very reason actually. Rosin is a de-oxidant solution that when heated removes any oxidization from a part. That means that when you apply your rosin core solder, the rosin is 'cleaning' the part and the pad as the solder is being melted, then the solder instantly cools onto a (hopefully) clean pad and part. Imagine trying to stick duct tape to a dirty surface. Works for a while right? But put some stress on that duct tape and it won't hold for long. Clean that surface and make sure the duct tape is perfect and you'll have a much better hold right?

Sometimes I find that I need a little extra help for certain parts. 1/4" jack lugs are a good example - sometimes I apply a little liquid solder to the lug FIRST, so that as soon as my iron goes on it's getting cleaned. This is because sometimes the little amount of rosin in the solder isn't enough to properly clean enough of the surface of the lug. Usually the parts from Smallbear are fine in this regard, it's only been recently (since I got jacks from Mammoth) that I've experienced this problem.

Hope that helps. Can't wait to see your first build! If you need any help feel free to make another post, or even send me a message! I'm on here all the time.

Jacob

Awesome, thanks for the advice! Very helpful for me, since I, at times, have no clue what I'm doing. I have some 60/40 rosin core, so I'll make sure to use that. And I'll give some of the parts an extra scrub-down, just to be sure. About the scrubbing with steel wool to give it the small grooves, I guess it's the same sort of idea behind taking a little bit of sandpaper to model kits (which I used to build) to help the glue stick, more surface area=a better bond.

Once I'm done my pedal I'll be sure to post some pictures so that everyone can see and comment/give advice for improvement. I'm sure there's a fair amount of learning involved in this whole thing.
Thanks again!
Corey