Boss CE-2 (tonepad corral chorus) rate mod

[claytushaywood]

I just finished a tonepad ce-2 clone I've been slowly working on forever.  looks to be quite similar to the madbean pork barrel.  I did the vibrato mod (which I'm actually quite digging as its my first non multifx vibrato), the effect level mod (c250k pot), and the intensity mod (used a on-off-on  switch with 10pf always in the middle- great for super subtle effect- very cool.

I am not getting a fast enough speed on this thing.  I read somewhere that someone used a 1M pot for the rate and got much faster leslie like speeds.  But that seems a little steep, like it might ruin some of the subtlety of the taper.

Anyone here know how to get some faster speeds without losing the natural slow sounds?  I post here, because I believe it was a popular board and I like this forum the best!  Also, I have a 4558 and tl072 in there right now- couldnt I sub 2 opa2134's for those?  or should I use ne5532 for 072 and opa2134 for 4558?  It sounds fantastic but I just cant help but use these burr browns I got a long time ago for free

[Scruffie]

There is no point wasting a Burrbrown in the LFO, for one it might not run right with it, two it's not in the Audio path so you wont hear any difference. Feel free with the other OpAmp though.

As for your speeds... you can switch C19 to a smaller value for faster speeds... so say a cap switch with 100nF & 10nF on it. The 1M pot may be fine though, you'd have to try and see.

[claytushaywood]

I'd love to have switchable speeds and not use one of my few 1M pots.  have you tried this?  will it work with my switchable depth mod?  I'm actually about to do a toggle for using it with bass.  This is gonna end up being a 3 pot 4 toggle chorus!  sweet!  The 4558 is the one i replace right?  the tl022 is the lfo IC?  I've read its good to replace that with an 072 or 062... yay or nay?

[claytushaywood]

also regarding c19- the lower capacitor will bring higher speeds?  will a whole exponent lower give extremely fast speeds?  should I throw in a middle ground cap with a three way switch?  like 10n in the middle always on- then 22n or 33n on one side (equaling 32 or 43n with the 10n in parallel) and 82n on the other side for 92n?

[Scruffie]

I'd love to have switchable speeds and not use one of my few 1M pots.  have you tried this?  will it work with my switchable depth mod?  I'm actually about to do a toggle for using it with bass.  This is gonna end up being a 3 pot 4 toggle chorus!  sweet!  The 4558 is the one i replace right?  the tl022 is the lfo IC?  I've read its good to replace that with an 072 or 062... yay or nay?

Not with this particular effect but I know it'll work, consider C19 the LFOs charge, the larger it is the more it can charge and the slower it sweeps. Yup, it'll work with your depth mod, I assume that's changing the Clock time capacitor for different delay ranges, that's post LFO circuit wise.

Yeah the TL022 is the LFO opamp, as long as the LFO is working and your chorus is sweeping, no reason to change it, any low current dual opamp will be fine in there and it wont alter the sound. Yeah the 4558 is the Audio path OpAmp, there is where changing an Opamp will change the sound.

also regarding c19- the lower capacitor will bring higher speeds?  will a whole exponent lower give extremely fast speeds?  should I throw in a middle ground cap with a three way switch?  like 10n in the middle always on- then 22n or 33n on one side (equaling 32 or 43n with the 10n in parallel) and 82n on the other side for 92n?

As I said above, think of it like the charge so a smaller value cap will make it run faster yes and will shift the range as it no longer has the capacitance to charge for slower speeds. You could have it run even slower so say... 10n Cap center for fast range, 82n on another to get it in to the original range and then maybe something like 220n for super slow speeds. You'll have 3 different ranges, there will probably be overlap between the range of each setting but I suppose it makes it easier to dial in selecting a different range mode.

Or you can do it your way, but the speed ranges will definitley overlap between those values but as I said, may make it easier to dial in a certain speed for you.

[claytushaywood]

I just did the rate mod with what you suggested 10n in the middle and 100n and 220n on either side.  Definitely works... But the 10n is way too fast-- and I like stranger sounds-  it's just distorted fast from about half way on the rate knob and up.  with the 10n cap and the rate knob in the middle this pedal produces amazing fast speed chorus and vibrato sounds.  Some of the coolest chorus sounds I've ever heard actually.  the 10n 100n 220n are not the best values though... the 10n's slowest speed doesnt overlap the 100n's fastest.  It's close though.  I might try 20n and 100n and that would probably be just fine.  But it would probably still be unable to go from a nice moderate speed to a swirly fast speed at the flick of the switch.  the values need to be closer to do that probably.  I should breadboard it, but I'm getting tired of not having this one boxed up!

I have always HATED chorus, but I heard a really cool subtle demo of this pedal and decided I should try it after reading so many glowing reviews.  Any chorus haters out there... build the pork barrel and do the tonepad mods for vibrato, effect level (needed for chorus), switchable internsity (i recommended a three way switch with something like 47pf in the middle and 22pf and 47pf in parallel on either side so you get something like 47pf, 69pf, and 94pf.  Really useful... 47pf alone is NOT deep enough and the stock rate is NOT fast enough.  the bass mod would probably be cool for a baritone too.

again, this is the ONLY chorus pedal I have ever liked at all, and I love it!

[Scruffie]

I just did the rate mod with what you suggested 10n in the middle and 100n and 220n on either side.  Definitely works... But the 10n is way too fast-- and I like stranger sounds-  it's just distorted fast from about half way on the rate knob and up.  with the 10n cap and the rate knob in the middle this pedal produces amazing fast speed chorus and vibrato sounds.  Some of the coolest chorus sounds I've ever heard actually.  the 10n 100n 220n are not the best values though... the 10n's slowest speed doesnt overlap the 100n's fastest.  It's close though.  I might try 20n and 100n and that would probably be just fine.  But it would probably still be unable to go from a nice moderate speed to a swirly fast speed at the flick of the switch.  the values need to be closer to do that probably.  I should breadboard it, but I'm getting tired of not having this one boxed up!

I have always HATED chorus, but I heard a really cool subtle demo of this pedal and decided I should try it after reading so many glowing reviews.  Any chorus haters out there... build the pork barrel and do the tonepad mods for vibrato, effect level (needed for chorus), switchable internsity (i recommended a three way switch with something like 47pf in the middle and 22pf and 47pf in parallel on either side so you get something like 47pf, 69pf, and 94pf.  Really useful... 47pf alone is NOT deep enough and the stock rate is NOT fast enough.  the bass mod would probably be cool for a baritone too.

again, this is the ONLY chorus pedal I have ever liked at all, and I love it!

Fair enough, I did say i'd not used one so I have no idea of the speed range of the original, but yeah, just increase the values to tweak it to your preference, maybe 47n center, 47n another side and 100n middle then. No real reason to breadboard the whole thing, just tap two wires off that cap and stick in values to find what you want, wont take 20 minutes!

I don't get the chorus haters, chorus is awesome! Though I agree some can be in your face (but I love a bit of that 80s tone sometimes).

By the way just to clarify, that's not really a depth switch as such, but a delay switch, you're increasing and decreasing the delay time of the MN3007 with different values.

[LaceSensor]

im guessing this shizz will work on the v3 porker ?
If so which cap is the equivalent. I want me a speed switch

[Scruffie]

im guessing this shizz will work on the v3 porker ?
If so which cap is the equivalent. I want me a speed switch

No time to look it up but if it was C19 on the tonepad schematic, cross reference the bean schematic.

[DutchMF]

im guessing this shizz will work on the v3 porker ?
If so which cap is the equivalent. I want me a speed switch

No time to look it up but if it was C19 on the tonepad schematic, cross reference the bean schematic.

Lace, if you're trying this out, let me know! I love my V3 Porker and would like it very much to expand its effects vocabulary, so to Pork...

Paul

[claytushaywood]

I'm not sure of the current speed range of the pork barrel, but with the tonepad board I just needed a little more speed.  I went ahead and for the hell of it did a 3 way speed switch that goes from super duper slow to ridiculously fast with the middle being normal.  I dig the extra speeds and the easy of dialing in perfect speeds, but I do have to say the very slow speeds and the very fast speeds sound coolest with vibrato.  Does the pork have the vibrato mod listed?  I highly recommend that mod.  It's a totally useable pitch vibrato and it does some super cool subtle stuff and super cool crazy fast stuff.  I put a 10n cap in the middle of my 3 way switch (so it's always in the circuit) for super fast speeds, 82n (+10n) for normal, and 220n for super slow stuff.  man the super slow stuff is subtle but very cool, you can get warped tape sounds with the super slow vibrato to lazer super fast

on another note, I did the mod from tonepad to add an effect level pot.  This is nescessary with the vibrato mod as the vibrato mode has significantly less volume.  And this pot is nescessary if you do the bass mod too.  However, I would like more volume out of the pedal.  anyone know how to boost the volume here?  I have a 250kC pot for the effect level, could I just increase that value?  Any ideas?

[harpplayer]

Hi!

1) Alternatively to scruffie´s post, in order to have different ranges of speed, you could use a switch for R32. This 1M resistor is in series with the rate pot. The 100k pot gives some variation on the speed, but what is keeping this from being faster is the resistor in front of it (and considering a fix c19 value). Use the standard 1M and say, a 510K and you´ll have the stock version and very usable faster settings.

You could always jumper R32 and use a 1M pot, but I felt the changes in the pot were quite abrupt. Or else, you could use 510k for R32 and a 470-500K pot, which works great!

I am writing all that much because you said faster settings sounded a bit distorted, which doesn´t make much sense to me, but could be related to the caps setting the clock time. Using the approach I described resulted in no perceivable change in the chorus sound quality (it is both warm and clean).

2) The vibrato mod can be improved for a smoother wave, but I haven´t got to that part yet (maybe it would be just too complicated for many reasons, and the result not really satisfying). It sounds pretty ok on its own, though.

3) The chorus intensity cap mod suggested on Tonepad is really cool! I wouldn´t go much over 47pF, because it adds quite a bit of noise, but using lower values, say 15pF can give some nice subtle tones.

4) If for some reason your direct signal is lower than when bypassed, use a lower value for R21 (39K would be a good bet). For the effect part, if you want more volume, lower the value of R22, BUT be carefull, because BBD´s are not perfectly clean devices - and that is the reason we like it, the tone is just warmer yet clean, without being sterile -, so if you set it too low, the sound will be loud as hell, and equally distorted.

Using larger values for the pot you mentioned would do pretty much nothing, if set to zero, it would just cut a bit more of the effect´s volume, which would inaudible with that much resistance in the first place...

Once again, you have a resistor in front of it (R22), so if you want more signal passing, this is what you should change. Use the 250kC pot and lower R22 to something in the 27k-39k range. This will also compensate the volume loss you perceive on the vibrato mod.

That´s it... Good luck. It is an awesome pedal!

André

[Scruffie]

Hi!

1) Alternatively to scruffie´s post, in order to have different ranges of speed, you could use a switch for R32. This 1M resistor is in series with the rate pot. The 100k pot gives some variation on the speed, but what is keeping this from being faster is the resistor in front of it (and considering a fix c19 value). Use the standard 1M and say, a 510K and you´ll have the stock version and very usable faster settings.

You could always jumper R32 and use a 1M pot, but I felt the changes in the pot were quite abrupt. Or else, you could use 510k for R32 and a 470-500K pot, which works great!

I am writing all that much because you said faster settings sounded a bit distorted, which doesn´t make much sense to me, but could be related to the caps setting the clock time. Using the approach I described resulted in no perceivable change in the chorus sound quality (it is both warm and clean).

2) The vibrato mod can be improved for a smoother wave, but I haven´t got to that part yet (maybe it would be just too complicated for many reasons, and the result not really satisfying). It sounds pretty ok on its own, though.

3) The chorus intensity cap mod suggested on Tonepad is really cool! I wouldn´t go much over 47pF, because it adds quite a bit of noise, but using lower values, say 15pF can give some nice subtle tones.

4) If for some reason your direct signal is lower than when bypassed, use a lower value for R21 (39K would be a good bet). For the effect part, if you want more volume, lower the value of R22, BUT be carefull, because BBD´s are not perfectly clean devices - and that is the reason we like it, the tone is just warmer yet clean, without being sterile -, so if you set it too low, the sound will be loud as hell, and equally distorted.

Using larger values for the pot you mentioned would do pretty much nothing, if set to zero, it would just cut a bit more of the effect´s volume, which would inaudible with that much resistance in the first place...

Once again, you have a resistor in front of it (R22), so if you want more signal passing, this is what you should change. Use the 250kC pot and lower R22 to something in the 27k-39k range. This will also compensate the volume loss you perceive on the vibrato mod.

That´s it... Good luck. It is an awesome pedal!

André

Personally I wouldn't play with R32, but yes it's an option.

When he said faster rates were distorted I think he meant it was getting in to ring mod speeds which can sound unpleasent. None of this should effect the delay time.

Vibrato does sound nice with a sine wave, the LFO could be modded to approximate one but personally at that point i'd just start designing a new vibrato. Looking at the CE-1 schematic may help though as I think I recall that used a sine wave for its vibrato mode.

The intensity mod is altering the delay time of the effect, the filtering on this chorus is reasonably good so it should be able to up a bit before too much noise or whine is heard but experimenting will be key.

Increasing the value of R24 would be the best bet for more volume, what your suggesting will play with the dry/wet mix, which may or may not be desireable.

[harpplayer]

Thanks Scruffie! Sorry for my newbieness, but I used to think that messing with R24 (in parallel with the caps) would somehow change the frequencies amplified by the IC. What is exactly the function of this resistor?

I guess what he wants though is to have more of the effect, so messing with the mix might be a good option at that point.

Tks!
André