Disappointed by the modern flangers

[pietro_moog]

The schematic is much more simple. It sounds better to me

[reddesert]

If you have a couple of SAD1024's like I do can I just swap out the MN3007 or do some other tweaks have to be made? How about the MN3006 as well? Can I just swap it out for one without additional tweaks?

Definitely don't do this. They have different pinouts and numbers of pins, but more importantly they have opposite polarities and you could fry the chip. The MN3007 uses P-MOS devices and requires a negative supply voltage, while the MN3207 and SAD1024 are N-MOS and use a positive supply (but the voltage requirements are different too: the MN3207 wants max +10V and the SAD1024 is supposed to operate off +15V). Someone more expert than me with analog delays, flangers etc will have to tell you more about the differences in clocks, signal filtering, etc, between circuits using the different devices.

[TNblueshawk]

If you have a couple of SAD1024's like I do can I just swap out the MN3007 or do some other tweaks have to be made? How about the MN3006 as well? Can I just swap it out for one without additional tweaks?

Definitely don't do this. They have different pinouts and numbers of pins, but more importantly they have opposite polarities and you could fry the chip. The MN3007 uses P-MOS devices and requires a negative supply voltage, while the MN3207 and SAD1024 are N-MOS and use a positive supply (but the voltage requirements are different too: the MN3207 wants max +10V and the SAD1024 is supposed to operate off +15V). Someone more expert than me with analog delays, flangers etc will have to tell you more about the differences in clocks, signal filtering, etc, between circuits using the different devices.

Thanks. I figured as much after doing some other reading. Too bad. I have a few chips and now can't locate a project.

[Bret608]

It looks like UT Source has lots of MN3006 in stock for less than $4 each. How many changes are required to use these in something like an Electric Mistress or A/DA circuit? I did not know there were BBDs that went down to this few stages!

[Scruffie]

It looks like UT Source has lots of MN3006 in stock for less than $4 each. How many changes are required to use these in something like an Electric Mistress or A/DA circuit? I did not know there were BBDs that went down to this few stages!

Nada for it to work, in fact you wouldn't even need the 4049 any more if you didn't want it (shouldn't hurt to keep it though) however while it certainly provides a shorter delay time (which is a personal preference thing) it isn't going to sound more like a SAD1024, there's more than the delay time that goes in to making a flanger.

It does have better high frequency response (and better noise and distortion specs to boot, although the SAD had pretty poor ones which attribute to its 'sound') than a MN3007 though, sadly the datasheets don't contain any information on gain vs. clock frequency so it may or may not be great regarding the mix at higher sweeps. It looks like it has less gain than the 3007 in general though so for something like the mistress with no BBD gain level adjustment you'd probably need to tweak the mixing resistors to get a 50/50 mix for the best flange sound.

I question if in an A/DA the sweep will be that audible at high frequencies, with the original clock frequencies you're going to be hitting 0.09mS instead of the original 0.4mS, that's incredibly short but I have never delved in to what's perceptible. Perhaps a 3009 would be a better compromise if that's the case, although that clock vs. gain on that is substantially worse than a 3007.

Oh and a heads up, while I'm sure there's a fair few MN3006 still out there as its one of the lesser demanded chips, UT are not immune to shipping fakes.

[Bret608]

Thanks, Scruffie! I was curious after seeing you and Lars discuss this a few years back, but couldn't remember the details. I appreciate the heads up on UT Source as well...I haven't ordered from them and was wondering if the relatively high in-stock numbers they report are a bit too good to be true.

[Scruffie]

If you have a couple of SAD1024's like I do can I just swap out the MN3007 or do some other tweaks have to be made? How about the MN3006 as well? Can I just swap it out for one without additional tweaks?

I can see you're very determined to use these in a flanger so yes if you use a little perf or vero daughterboard you could use one.

It is going to be different for each project though, I started to write an explanation of everything you needed to pay attention to but even I started to get lost trying to cover every eventuality so you'd need to pick something first.

I actually wouldn't mind a project for one my self to save me having to open a working pedal every time I want to quickly test one... 

[TNblueshawk]

If you have a couple of SAD1024's like I do can I just swap out the MN3007 or do some other tweaks have to be made? How about the MN3006 as well? Can I just swap it out for one without additional tweaks?

I can see you're very determined to use these in a flanger so yes if you use a little perf or vero daughterboard you could use one.

It is going to be different for each project though, I started to write an explanation of everything you needed to pay attention to but even I started to get lost trying to cover every eventuality so you'd need to pick something first.

I actually wouldn't mind a project for one my self to save me having to open a working pedal every time I want to quickly test one... 

Yeah man, don't waste your time typing anything out for me as I may never build one! I hate to just let these things die on the vine so I'll keep trying.