Pedal Amp Rigs tube preamps analog cab sims etc

[claytushaywood]

so i had always wondered how strymon got their timeline demoes sounding so good.  if you listen to them and have tried playing the timeline through a tube combo amp you know you cant get that kind of detail on your delay repeats.  i did a little research and found they were using those old damage control tube preamps (even for clean tones) direct.  they run the speaker cab out into the delay pedal straight into an audio interface.  this gives your guitar tone some tube warmth and preamp eq along with a speaker cab emulation before it hits say the ice delay.  the advantage is that your octave delays and space reverbs dont get their frequencies chopped off by guitar amp and speaker eq attenuation.    there are also some other great advantages of this kind of setup, i just never thought you would be able to get that great of a guitar sound without a tube amp.  but their demoes are just beautiful.

well i bought the damage vontrol demonizer tube preamp, which does run at like 250v and has some unique eq along with an optical compressor and a speaker cab simulator output.  i plugged it into my headphone amp and was pretty disappointed   the speaker cab emulation doesnt sound much better than straight out.  im getting a very similar sound to plugging in direct like that sound that theres too much high end content and just not fat enough.

does anyone have any experience with running a rig like this?  it would really be the ultimate setup.  all analog preamp and speaker cab attenuatuon, ability to practice with headphones and use a PA live.  im mostly doing looping ambient stuff now so i dont need the balls of a big amp and speaker cab setup.

i am thinking i would be better off with a home built speaker cab simulator.  does anyone have experience with these?  i know theres a popular project on diysb and a vero layout at tagboards but im not sure it will help. 

maybe someone else has a good setup that allows full reproduction of pedal frequencies without going full digital amp modeling?

any ideas would be appreciated!!

[claytushaywood]

i just realized i may not be enjoying the tone im getting because my headphone amp and the demonizer might not have the impedance conditioning of a direct box or a modern audio interface.  would the high impedsnce direct input og a decent audio interface or the like affect the tone im hearing that much?

[Aleph Null]

I'm running the board pictured below either into my tube amp or straight to front of house, depending on the situation and what I'm in the mood for.



The key for me is the Bogner Ecstasy Blue. In front of an amp, it's usually off unless I want an overdrive tone. When running direct, it acts as the preamp. I can turn down the gain and get a good clean tone. I turn the Pre-eq off, which simulates the treble roll off of most guitar cabs. You can't set the pedal as you would using it in front of an amp; all that treble goes straight to the tweeter—just keep turning that treble knob counter-clockwise. All my time and modulation effects are after the Bogner and before the PA (obviously), so it's similar to putting them in the effects loop of an amp.

Does it sound just like running an amp? No. But that's not the point, is it? All the HiFi detail communicated by the PA.

In theory, you could do this with any pre-amp or amp-in-a-box pedal. Defeatable speaker emulation might be a useful tool in your situation.

[Willybomb]

I usually DI into the FOH using a Berry Ultra-D, running from the amp sim output of my Blackstar HT-Dual. The cab sim on the Berry is usable, and I have gone from amp or pedalboard straight to the desk with it before.

I've built a DI that includes a marshal cabsim vero from Sabrotone along with an xlr output, my next one will have the multicab sim built in.  Obviously no tubes or any of that gump, but once you start putting drums, guitar, bass and vocals in a live mix the pristine harmonics of the tube preamp are somewhat moot.