Wow, some people really don't like Pedals.

[diablochris6]

Yeah, punk rockers talking about playing well does seem a little funny to me.

Playing well and using effects aren't mutually exclusive. Sure, there are plenty of crappy guitarists that rely on the wooshes and crunches and bleep-bloops of effects to cover bad playing, just as there are bad players that don't use effects and good players who use effects poorly.

I would love to be considered a guitarist that is good enough to not use pedals, but I would still use pedals to fully express the sonic palette founded by general guitar aptitude. I have a friend who is a stellar musician; he has chops for days on the guitar, AND he has a couple massive pedal boards with several of the freaky Electro-Harmonix and Earthquaker Devices pedals and his guitar synth pickup at his disposal. He routes those pedals in all sorts of crazy ways to build ambient soundscapes and otherworldly solo tones. Using pedals effectively is as much of an art as guitar licks.

[Mojo Fandangle]

This pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly.

There's usually no mind more closed off then the one that thinks of itself as progressive or non conformist. If you think you know the truth it doesn't tend to make you very open minded to hear the view points of those who think differently.

Yep, some people are just way too set in their ways and too concerned with fitting in with all of the other individuals.

They should really go punk and remove the gain stages and eq circuits in their amps, since that is essentially what most common pedals are doing.

Spot on. Is distortion not a guitar effect if you don't put it in a box with a footswitch?
Actually, forget guitar amps and all that hipster electricity stuff, lets sing Kumbaya.

Since when was the prime focus of punk music playing well?

As much as I love some punk music, if you're a punk who's concerned with playing well, you're missing the point. In fact I think you've discovered exactly where punk went wrong. Ever since 'Pop Punk', or what I prefer to think of as Brat Rock, they've been way too concerned with melody and catchy power chord progressions. You might as well just play One Direction albums through a distortion pedal.

There is some really fantastic punk, but I just can't get into a lot of it.

I couldn't agree more. I still love cranking Fugazi and Crass every now and then. They're both great examples of how progressive punk music can be.

[alanp]

It's not punk, but the Metal Evolution episode on Grunge had an interesting quote from an interview -- "The musicianship was... rudimentary is the wrong term, it was /functional./"

Mind you, in the NWOBHM interviews, pretty much all of the metal musos were VERY emphatic that they were nothing to do with punk, THEY could play!

[TNblueshawk]

What bothers me most about the OP is that these wankers were putting you down for what you do. They can think what they want about pedals and it's cool. But to attempt to embarrass you and put down what you do is a different discussion altogether. You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.

Personal fav's of guitarists who apparently aren't very good according to their standards. We all should be so shitty 

Gilmour
Hendrix
Trower
Bonamassa
Haynes

[jimilee]

Recently I heard an interview with Gilmour from the live at Pompeii soundtrack. He kinda addressed this specifically. He said you still have to hear it in your head first. Effects are just tools to make it happen just like your guitar.


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[Muadzin]

Musicians shouldn't diss each other for using X brand of guitar, or Y brand of amps, for using pedals, for not using pedals, for playing whatever kinds of music, or not. Musicians should stick together, for the enemy is not each other, it's the DJ. DJ's are taking away good paying gigs from musicians and DJ's have convinced the general public that they are musicians as well. That going to a venue where some DJ Is playing music is akin to going to an actual concert. The DJ, not each other, that is our common enemy!

[jimilee]

Musicians shouldn't diss each other for using X brand of guitar, or Y brand of amps, for using pedals, for not using pedals, for playing whatever kinds of music, or not. Musicians should stick together, for the enemy is not each other, it's the DJ. DJ's are taking away good paying gigs from musicians and DJ's have convinced the general public that they are musicians as well. That going to a venue where some DJ Is playing music is akin to going to an actual concert. The DJ, not each other, that is our common enemy!

Truth, we lost a few regular gigs because of this.


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[alanp]

http://inthemix.junkee.com/deadmau5-takes-aim-at-fcking-cd-playing-dipshit-djs/28906

Even Deadmau5 (a nonguitarist electronic music dude, although Reznor was on one of his newer albums) has ranted about morons who just play CDs.

My take on it is that a good entertainer is a good entertainer, regardless of whether he's using 303's and SH-1's, a Gibson and a Fender, or whether he's just making animals out of balloons (and holding captive the attention of everyone in the room.)

[matmosphere]

Not to go off topic but, is there any 303 and 606 DIY projects out there? I've always wanted a drumatrix. I can't program non step drum machines to save my life. 

[Mojo Fandangle]

You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.

Yep. Unfortunately I wont be supporting my friends band again. It's a shame because my friend is supportive of what I do but his bandmates are dicks. I was one of about 10 people watching the band. There was me, the 2 friends I brought, and about 7 wag's and guys from the next band.
Their next audience will be about 30% smaller.

[chromesphere]

You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.

Yep. Unfortunately I wont be supporting my friends band again. It's a shame because my friend is supportive of what I do but his bandmates are dicks. I was one of about 10 people watching the band. There was me, the 2 friends I brought, and about 7 wag's and guys from the next band.
Their next audience will be about 30% smaller.

I remember playing those gigs when I was in a punk band.  It was more of a friends gathering then anything.  Still had a lot of fun, good practice too.  We'd play a gig with 200+ people and we would get stage freight "these people are here to see...us...?" Didn't happen very often though lol

Technique also wasn't necessarily the order of the day.  We were more focused on speed and rhythm.  But that was a long time ago, mid to late 90's...I have no idea what modern punk sounds like...

Putting down somebody else for using a tool to achieve a given goal is very strange.  I have respect for minimalist guitar playing, I do it sometimes myself, guitar into amp, focus on my playing, its a nice break from effects.  I also have respect for players that use a lot of effects.  Concentrating on your playing and controlling an array of effects and effect timing etc would be tricky. 

I think thats the missing ingredient here fandangle, respect

[Mojo Fandangle]

You wouldn't find me at the gigs again.

I think thats the missing ingredient here fandangle, respect

Agreed. Mutual respect insn't much to expect from people who's music you've gone out of you way to support.

I used to play in a semi-punk band when I was younger too, but I think I just ran out of angst by the time I was 20.
I agree that non technical playing is just as entertaining as the techy stuff, probably more so. Most of my favourite guitarists are rough and raw players like Cobain, Jamie Hince, and Omar Rodriguez

[lincolnic]

Slightly off-topic, but, like, has everyone implying that playing badly is an integral part of punk never listened to the Dead Kennedys or the Damned or the Buzzcocks, or what?

Saying "this kind of music is always played badly" isn't any different from saying "anyone who uses pedals can't play well". Respect is a two-way street, and we can't rail against one false stereotype while propping up another one. The dudes Mojo Fandangle ran into at his friends' gig were undoubtedly jerks, but don't let a few jerks make you write off an entire genre of music.

[chromesphere]

That's a good point Lincoln, I agree.  There is no way I could play the stuff I used to when I was sub 20.  It was fast and energetic.  I don't think I could last 45 mins these days playing stuff like that.  I also seemed to have had palm muting patterns done to a fine art, which I have forgotten in my old age.  Anyway, "technical" for me doesn't mean enjoyable.  In fact, quite the opposite.  That's just my personal preference though.

[Addy Bart]

There are indeed some fine musicians from the punk and post-punk era... This Heat, Wire, Joy Division, Public Image Ltd, Crass... These bands also knew what they were doing with effects and studio technology. Sounds like the jerks in the band need to broaden their horizons