Is there a limit for comedy?

[TNblueshawk]

Cut to the chase? Yeah, comedy can go too far and like most things in life there is a line that can be crossed. So where is the line? Depends on a butt load of factors, who you are, how you were brought up, where you live, your own culture, etc.. etc... . But the OP's question as I read it is can comedy go too far and sure it can. I also think that most reasonable people really do know what the line is when alone sitting in a chair contemplating what is right and wrong. Whether they admit it to others or take that all too familiar 'free speech' argument (and we all know that is not an absolute right either) and flaunt it around is another thing altogether.

I've never quite understood why if you put it under the guise of "comedy" then it's ok to say what you want no matter how disgustingly offensive and harmful it could be but if not trying to be comedic it is not ok? What is really the difference? So if the joke is funny then it is ok and if the joke is not funny it is still ok or not ok? If still ok and not funny then how is that comedy? Is it like pool where you call the 8 ball in the corner pocket and as long as you call comedy then anything and everything is on the table?

So think about the biggest racist, bigot, homophobe, jewish hating, male chauvinist douche bag you know and maybe think about some things this person said (or if you never knew anyone then imagine it or pull from books you've read) and think about how you feel about him or her  and if they jumped on here and expoused their views how we all would just lay him/her to waste, right? (Or do we say right on brother...freedome of speech, feel free to speak some more?) Take the same person and they decide they want to be a comedian so they develop their act around these same views. That's cool because it is comedy and more power to him?

Or is there this element to where we are cool with certain things as long as we know the comedian doesn't really believe what they are saying and they are truly saying it just for jokes? Dunno. How do we know what the comedian really thinks unless maybe they are famous like Mel Gibson? Maybe Mel should do stand up. I'm sure he would hilairous as he talks about our Jewish friends. Or maybe he wouldn't be funny at all but if he says he is now a comedian all is well?

In reading this thread I think we all know we are not talking about the usual stereotypical jokes that have been around for a thousand + years. I won't mention them of course. I think we are really talking about more offensive and sinister things that truly challenge all of us as to what is funny or not. Making fun of people with autism or maybe some veterans who had half their head blown off? Yeah, that would be a real laugh..you know..as long as you hang the comedy sign in front it.

So yes, comedy can go too far and like porn I think we all truly know it when we see it. I have laughed at things before over the years and I knew when I did that joke crossed the line. So did I laugh? Yeah at least the first time I heard it or maybe not. Did it cross the line and really shouldn't have been a joke? Absolutely.

Just my 2pf's as I've thought about this before.

Now if you will excuse me I'm going to yell "fire" at work so I can get off early being Friday and all 

[alanp]

It was a victim of it's own success as it started to appeal to more and more people and they weren't necessarily interested in cars. I stand by that they should have called it a day with the Aston Martin - death of the supercar article they did. They were at their peak and had just started to recycle. The signs were there enough for me to say, it'd done now, let's move on.

Hate to say it, but I'm finding myself increasingly skipping through the new episodes of Top Gear.

Yawn. Yet another Ferrari. Yet another Porsche. Yet another tiny three door big engine car. Yet another race. Never thought I'd be bored of seeing yet another road legal go-fast go-kart.

Not to mention that it's rare for them to bring in a guest that I recognise, these days. I only recognised Will Smith (who I don't care about) and Gillian Anderson (who was interesting -- Agent Scully).

The races... they're becoming increasingly formulaic.

They should have done what Monster Garage did, and go out while they were still great.

[Muadzin]

Maybe a little less political correctness is in order and a lot more get back to the real problems we face as a species!

Have you considered that "political correctness" might actually be born out of a desire to understand one's fellow human beings and not simply "not offending people"? Many ills of society are reinforced simply by language. Publicly making it clear that someone's statement is unacceptable for current or ideal social norms can have implications that go way beyond just deciding whether someone's funny or not, and changing the channel doesn't change the world.

I happen to think that what is wrong with the political correct movement is that it is trying to silence a way of thought and expression it does not agree with. It does so out of noble intentions, but the end result is censorship and death of freedom of speech. It's the road to hell. Because A: who are you are me to decide what is funny or not, and B: the people we disagree with, who we find deeply offensive and who's opinion we hope to change, have just as much of a right to express their opinions as everybody else. And C: for now we may find ourselves in agreement with such a movement, it could just as easily turn against us. The price of freedom of speech is that not only we do have to endure listening to things we find deeply offensive, we may actually be required to lay down our lives so other people can say these offensive things.

One thing I have noticed with comedy is that it allows people to say things using comedy that they would never get away with in a normal discussion. Comedians seem to be able to reach more people across a bigger political spectrum then normal activists/publicists. That is what makes comedy such a potent political weapon and why if we censor comedy freedom of speech will suffer even more.

[pickdropper]

The freedom of speech ensures that everybody can say whatever they want without reprisal from the government.  There's no promise it will be without consequence from your peers.

But common decency hopefully guides people to thinking about what they say before they say it.  Often people that spout hateful rhetoric are surprisingly sensitive when offensive words are used about things about them or things they care about.

Comedy can be a wonderful vehicle for breaking down barriers and challenging beliefs that have become stagnant.  This is one of the great benefits of comedy.  It can make us laugh while also making us think about the society we live in.

Unfortunately, comedy is also frequently used as a way to spew hateful and divisive views that serve absolutely no benefit to anybody.  They are often said for selfish reasons and can encourage hateful views of some audience members while galvanizing feelings of exclusion from other audience members.

I don't think that government censorship is ever the right answer.  But it doesn't bother me in the slightest if offensive comedians are held to task for their hate.  Just because they claim it's comedy doesn't mean people have to accept it.

Of course, it's not quite black and white.  As somebody said earlier in the thread, much of it is "I know it when I see or hear it."  Monty Python skewed everybody and everything but it all seemed to be delivered with amusement, not hate.  I don't like the side of political correctness that doesn't allow us to laugh at all of our differences, but people know when there is malice behind the joke.

[juansolo]

Of course, it's not quite black and white.  As somebody said earlier in the thread, much of it is "I know it when I see or hear it."  Monty Python skewed everybody and everything but it all seemed to be delivered with amusement, not hate.  I don't like the side of political correctness that doesn't allow us to laugh at all of our differences, but people know when there is malice behind the joke.

...and yet they managed to upset the General Synod and therefore Christians (who had not even seen the film) were up in arms about Life of Brian. I not sure comedy is even possible without offending somebody somewhere... FWIW, it was a hoooge deal at the time. Which was televised, then parodied by Not The Nine o'clock News

[the3secondrule]

when I think of top gear, I think of:

Brutal

[juansolo]

See now though I agree with a lot of what he's saying, I don't find it funny. Whereas Frankie Boyle's Hammond comment (while he was still suffering from a brain injury...) was so far over the line BUT was funny. It was very much one of those 'too soon?' type moments, but I laughed... I'm probably going to hell.

[micromegas]

Sorry for bringing this topic back to life guys. I had to read carefully every post and, although my opinion doesn't match everyones exposed here (I think that would be impossible ) is cool to have other point of views to learn from.
I'm glad this topic derived in harmless discussion. Comedy is a sensitive subject and it amazes me, as it has the ability to trigger very different emotions depending on the audience.

That said, I just read this in the newspaper:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/25/jeremy-clarkson-top-gear-contract-bbc

[pickdropper]

Sorry for bringing this topic back to life guys. I had to read carefully every post and, although my opinion doesn't match everyones exposed here (I think that would be impossible ) is cool to have other point of views to learn from.
I'm glad this topic derived in harmless discussion. Comedy is a sensitive subject and it amazes me, as it has the ability to trigger very different emotions depending on the audience.

That said, I just read this in the newspaper:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/25/jeremy-clarkson-top-gear-contract-bbc

It's funny, I re-read my own post and I'm not totally sure it matches my own opinion.  Hehe

Truth is, it's pretty rare for comedy to offend me.  There is very little in this world that can't be poked fun of a little bit.  The only thing I really don't like is when people hide behind comedy to spread actually hateful views.  I've seen more on a personal level than with professional comedians.  The whole "hey it's just a joke" thing following a truly racist comment often leaves me a bit flat.  I'm probably not explaining it well.

As far as Clarkson, that's beyond just controversial comedy.  If you punch out a co-worker, it's pretty likely you are going to get sacked.

[TNblueshawk]

Sorry for bringing this topic back to life guys. I had to read carefully every post and, although my opinion doesn't match everyones exposed here (I think that would be impossible ) is cool to have other point of views to learn from.
I'm glad this topic derived in harmless discussion. Comedy is a sensitive subject and it amazes me, as it has the ability to trigger very different emotions depending on the audience.

That said, I just read this in the newspaper:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/25/jeremy-clarkson-top-gear-contract-bbc

It's funny, I re-read my own post and I'm not totally sure it matches my own opinion.  Hehe

Truth is, it's pretty rare for comedy to offend me.  There is very little in this world that can't be poked fun of a little bit.  The only thing I really don't like is when people hide behind comedy to spread actually hateful views.  I've seen more on a personal level than with professional comedians.  The whole "hey it's just a joke" thing following a truly racist comment often leaves me a bit flat.  I'm probably not explaining it well.

As far as Clarkson, that's beyond just controversial comedy.  If you punch out a co-worker, it's pretty likely you are going to get sacked.

You said it well as that is basically what I was saying in my rambling post too at the end of the day. And yeah, punching out the co-worker, no matter how many I've worked/work deserve it  will get you fired.

[juansolo]

They've been wanting shot of Clarkson for years, they've just not been able to do it because of he popularity and the amount of money he brings in (TG is worth something like £50m a year). So they pull him up on the slightest things. Even releasing pulled footage of him not saying the 'n' word to try and disgrace him. If the BBC wanted to keep him they would. They've promoted people who've bitten other colleagues and protected peadophiles since the 70's. I know you can't compare this to that. But that's the organisation we're talking about. Politicians have punched, on TV, protesters (to be fair he egged him). But that didn't result him him being sacked. No, they wanted rid, and they were just waiting for Clarkson to fuck up.

We also don't know the circumstances... I am an ultra-pacifist/coward/whatever, yet I came very, very close to twatting my boss once (thankfully a colleague could see how wound up I was and took me aside to calm down). So you just don't know what's brought it on, and we'll probably never know really. No there's no justification for hitting someone. But you can also be provoked into hitting someone if someone keeps relentlessly pushing your buttons (bullying isn't always throwing punches). A switch gets flicked in your head that basically says, fuck it, I really don't care any more.

It's a non-story. No-one loses here apart from, maybe sadly, the producer on the end of the punch.

[juansolo]

[raulduke]

I would agree that we don't know what Clarkson has had to deal with personally.

You can't assault a colleague and get away with it though.... you just can't. Maybe if he hadn't pissed off as many BBC bods in the past he would have got away with it. But he was on his last warning by all accounts.

It might also be a good thing for all involved...

Top Gear was getting stale, but it was such a cash cow there was no impetus for anyone to freshen/modernise it as they did 15 (or whatever) years ago.

Now they have no choice but to change the format...

Clarkson will also be inundated with offers. The ball is in his court as far as I'm concerned. I don't find the guy funny, but I know a lot of people do, and will want to continue watching/reading his work.

I'd put my money on Sky signing him and his cronies up for some lucrative re-hash within a couple of months