AMP Pcb's

[playpunk]

Quick Question - Is there some reason that people don't offer amp PCB's with off-board pots & tubes? It seems like this would be a logical next project for pedal guys.

[jkokura]

I can tell you that one reason is that there is a lot of liability issues in dealing with higher voltages. The voltages in amps have the capability to kill people, which means that the people working on/building amps need either training or an amount of common sense. The risk of death is minute with pedals, and I can't think of one specific instance where it's been reported.

Another, secondary reason, is that amp building is by nature a much more expensive project. The costs are in the range of 10x more expensive. So, logically, it doesn't 'pay' to put out full amp projects UNLESS you're doing full kits, where you can markup everything sold. If you can sell 10 pedal PCBs for every one amp PCB, it makes less sense fiscally to be doing amps. ESPECIALLY when considering that responsible amp design requires the investment of a prototype process. For example, before I release a project I've built as many as 3 different prototype PCBs, sometimes multiple copies of the same PCBs, and I try to build a finished pedal of each design (not very successfully). If did that with amps, that would mean I'd be spending $500-1000 per amp design released... do you know how many PCBs you have to sell to make that initial investment back?

A third reason I can think of is that there is much less demand for it. Fewer people are building amps, so the sales alone will be fewer. I think a realistic estimate is I'd sell 20-30 copies of a pedal PCB for every 1 copy of an amp PCB. There's little reason to invest in developing that market.

Fourtly, and this is beginning to sound like a major rain on the parade, is that traditional amp building doesn't require a PCB. It's actually easier to design a turret board or an eyelet board, and the supplies almost balance out compared to buying a PCB for a project. Plus, the satisfaction of doing the build in that old school, traditional style, is actually what I look forward to when I get my butt in gear and actually build the amp I plan to build. PCBs take away from that experience, so you're going to lose PCB sales to the 'old school' mindset.

Long story short... it's an uphill battle I think.

Jacob

[playpunk]

So now I know! Thanks, Jakob. Looks like I'll have to find a champ kit and build it up.

[Bret608]

Okay, so I agree with Jacob's assessment of this, but I do want to tell you that Tube Depot in Memphis sells a fabbed PCB of the Tweed Champ for $17.95. I think someone on this forum (Pryde maybe?) did a build report of an amp using one. That said, I don't imagine too many people order that instead of just getting their kit since you'll end up ordering the rest of the parts from them or someone like them anyway. But I did want to let you know it's out there.

It's a timely topic for me--been thinking a lot about whether to mod my existing amp or save up for a kit. I love the thought of building my own, but saving up to do so would take away from all the pedals I still want to build!

[GermanCdn]

To mirror Jacob's points from the consumer side, it's really hard to make fiscal sense of building amps.  I'm a gear addict with clearly defined control issues, but everytime I do the math on building my own amps, the reality is by the time I build the circuit, source the transformers, tubes, speaker, build the cab, chassis, and head, get the tolex/grille cloth, yada yada yada, I've reached a number that rivals the new price of a good quality production amp or possibly a great used amp, which makes it difficult to justify.  Then there's the issue of space after the build.  Clearly, if you built a Fender, you'd need to build a Marshall and a Vox, then a Soldano, etc, etc, etc, and that starts taking up a lot of man cave real estate.  And then there's the issue of killing yourself building it, which never seems to leave my mind.

[selfdestroyer]

I agree with costs.. I have attempted to source 2 builds in the last 2 months and it just seems like I get to a point where I say "I can probably get a nice amp on CList for this cost" and it kills my ambition. I know when I first started building pedals I was ordering parts from SmallBear one pedal at a time and after my third build I noticed that this was going to be expensive unless I start buying in bulk. I sold one of the pedals I made and a few other odds and ends on eBay and that funded a $400 buy of parts. I'm almost a year in and 20-25 builds later and I am still using these parts. So what I'm getting at is, if you want to build amps then I'm sure the start up costs are there but once you get all the smaller parts accounted for then the transformers and chassis will not feel so bad at the end of the day.. at least that what I'm trying to tell myself. Lol

Once day I will have a small tube amp I have built. One day...

[culturejam]

There are amp PCBs out there, just not as many as pedals. I've got two sitting at  home now that i'll probably never get around to.

And there are tons of pre-fabbed turret and eyelet boards designed to build amps on. And a lot of kits. So the materials are out there if you are so inclined.

Liability may have somethign to do with it (you can burn a house down with a badly wired tube amp, I suspect), but project cost is likely a big deterrent as well. The last couple posts have addressed this quite well. I just can't justify spending twice as much to build an amp as it costs me to buy one. Of course, the fun in building it offsets the cost a bit, but I'm not sure I'll have $500 worth of fun building a Champ. For that price, I can buy an amp that will blow the Champ away in both tone and features/options.

If I could buy pedals that were half the price of the ones I build and sounded better with more options...I sure as hell wouldn't be building pedals. 

[alexradium]

+1 on all above
PCB makes sense if you need complex circuits, and you need to replicate several times.
Design is also a big issue, and the PCB should be thick enough and stiff,not your average pedal thing.

Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus con Tapatalk 2

[Bret608]

Another thing that keeps me going back-and-forth on this...to build a hand-wired amp that would actually be as pedal-friendly as my old Blues Jr. would cost more and be a bit more complicated. At least I think this is right. A Tweed Deluxe or Champ kit would cost the least, and I do like the sounds, but would those be kind of one-trick ponies?

[davent]

Over at Wattkins, you have to be registered to view anything, but they've been designing/adapting circuits using new parts with the goal of keeping the project below $100 including new transformers and chassis. So small mostly SE designs, sometimes cheap Russian tubes or other less in demand NOS, tone and cost are paramount.

They also do sell a PCB that i believe people are adapting to a number of different topologies. Gerbers are also available for that.


http://www.wattkins.com/forum
http://www.ppwatt.com/faq/tweed-5e3-pcb

I've got the ExpressPCB files that John Calhoun used to create the Firefly PCB he use to sell.
dave