Real experience with MN3005 vs. v3205

[pickdropper]

It seems most folks here go through the pain to dig up real MN3005 chips.  Has anybody actually built one of each version and compared them?

I read through some of the old posts, but didn't find any real world comparison of otherwise identical builds.

[djaaz]

I remembered this discussion.

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=2954.msg25287#msg25287

Not that much in here but will give you some idea.

[Scruffie]

The filtering and companding will make the most tonal difference. 3005s will create more headroom at higher voltages, 3205s may clip earlier.

But no I don't know anyone other than bean who's built both.

[djaaz]

I love my memory toy which is very well named.
They must have some x320x in their guts. Could not say which from V320x or BL320x

Don't see how MN3005 could make this thing tell a different story.

Now, that's nothing like a DMM with Mojo inside.
I'm not smart enough to tell if it comes from the design or the chipset.

Would be fun if someone could record some kind of blind test and make a poll.

[lloyd17]

I'm planning to build a 3205 version to satisfy my own curiosity. I was on the fence about building the dirtbag because I like the Echo Base sooo much but honestly the DMM smokes it for my purposes. The repeats are very punchy and present compared to the echo base and degrade in a much more pleasing way. I still quite like the Echo Base for it's easy peasy build and mods but once my Dirtbag gets sorted the EB is moving to the secondary board.

What I'd like to know is this: Are these differences due to voltage/headroom/filtering/companding or due to MN mojo? If the 3205 version has these same qualities on the repeats there really is no reason to build with MN parts since it would be the surrounding circuitry that is producing the real differences.

EDIT: this is given that the bugfixes for the 3205 dirtbag work well. The noise issues spooked me enough to go the MN route which is fraught with it's own issues..

[Scruffie]

I love my memory toy which is very well named.
They must have some x320x in their guts. Could not say which from V320x or BL320x

Don't see how MN3005 could make this thing tell a different story.

Now, that's nothing like a DMM with Mojo inside.
I'm not smart enough to tell if it comes from the design or the chipset.

Would be fun if someone could record some kind of blind test and make a poll.

4 x BL2308 in the memory toy  It is a great little box!

A blind test would be the best way to do it just to see if people could tell a difference between the two pedals but to tell between the 'sound' of the two chips, the builds would need component matching etc. to make sure they were exactly the same other than the chips.

I'm planning to build a 3205 version to satisfy my own curiosity. I was on the fence about building the dirtbag because I like the Echo Base sooo much but honestly the DMM smokes it for my purposes. The repeats are very punchy and present compared to the echo base and degrade in a much more pleasing way. I still quite like the Echo Base for it's easy peasy build and mods but once my Dirtbag gets sorted the EB is moving to the secondary board.

What I'd like to know is this: Are these differences due to voltage/headroom/filtering/companding or due to MN mojo? If the 3205 version has these same qualities on the repeats there really is no reason to build with MN parts since it would be the surrounding circuitry that is producing the real differences.

They're due to the circuit design, an MN3005 only has the mojo of slightly different specs to a 3205 and a higher voltage tollerance, but they are both Bucket Brigade Devices from the same family.

Nope, as long as you don't find 3205s to clip too early (high output pickups or actives) then there is no real reason other than mojo for using a 3005 and if you run it from 9V, you're just wasting it really IMO.

[djaaz]

Not a huge fan of the echo base. Mine is taking the dust.

Funny how that reminds me of a lot of discussions on diy guitar builder forum.

Wood mojo guys against pickup guys.

That was a huge dispute that ended with a big blind test: a les paul as a reference and then single coil pickup on 12 stratocaster styled guitar. Still very different guitars, very different pickups.
People had to try recognize the wood from the bodies: ash, mahogany, alder, basswood etc.

One guy was 100% correct and that was a boutique pickup builder.

I agree with you that a blind test will mostly show difference between pedals and/or components. Still that will be interesting to see if people can make their way through it.

My guess is that trained people would tell the difference, the vast majority won't.

[Scruffie]

Not a huge fan of the echo base. Mine is taking the dust.

Funny how that reminds me of a lot of discussions on diy guitar builder forum.

Wood mojo guys against pickup guys.

That was a huge dispute that ended with a big blind test: a les paul as a reference and then single coil pickup on 12 stratocaster styled guitar. Still very different guitars, very different pickups.
People had to try recognize the wood from the bodies: ash, mahogany, alder, basswood etc.

One guy was 100% correct and that was a boutique pickup builder.

I agree with you that a blind test will mostly show difference between pedals and/or components. Still that will be interesting to see if people can make their way through it.

My guess is that trained people would tell the difference, the vast majority won't.

I've just started playing with the PT2399 for the first real time, I know people say it's near enough analog but it's just not the same... and it doesn't modulate nearly as nicely. Fun to mess with though, I think if I did an Echo Base or simmilar it would be a modded one that could get the benefits of the chip and its simplicity.

It would be interesting but I worry that suddenly people would go 'Oh that one sounds darker than that one!' and then suddenly the whichever chip isn't desireable because it's not bright or dark.

I suppose someone could switch the chips on the same board... dunno if it'll cause issues like with the Aqua Boy though.

If I did that test i'd throw a Memory Toy or Boy in too.

[djaaz]

Trick is the reference pedal that all samples are compared too. Has to be a reference.
Something everyone knows.

Then, make it about the poll all around subjective preference of the samples.

As you say, in the end, it's more about the pedal and ultimately the guitar.

[pickdropper]

Thanks for all of the input and opinions.  It is possible the lower headroom of the 9V chip could cause me issues when used with high output pickups, but we will have to see.

I ordered 2 of the dirtbag boards from madbean.  I will build the first one with the V3205 and then keep the second board unpopulated in case I can locate a pair of MN3005 chips.

Does anybody have a pair of legit MN3005 chips they want to sell?  These things are getting increasingly hard to find and I don't feel like dealing with the hit or miss (mostly miss) aspect of ebay.

[djaaz]

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=3444.0

A lot of build with MN3005, though.

Last positive feedback was from dalbani.co.uk
A lot of us are still searching. I'm pretty sure i won't ever go trough the same hunt for any pedal once i have my dirtbag finished.

Main reason from me is that i'm pretty sure that MN3005 chip won't make me famous.