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Germanium Fuzz Pedal

Started by skypn, August 02, 2023, 10:55:44 PM

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skypn

I'm going to try my hand at a germanium fuzz. I found the ElectrSmash site, and have decided to (kinda) emulate that.
There is just one problem for me, this paragraph:

Only using a 9V battery, no external power supply: The original Fuzz Face using PNP transistors uses "positive ground" that means that the input and output jack are referenced to 9V (instead of ground). You can plug it to your pedalboard or amp without any problems BUT if you use a daisy chain or non-isolated power supply to power it, they will create a short. The best way to avoid conflicts is just to use a 9V battery, the low power consumption of this effect (2.5mA) will make your battery last for very long.

I consider myself only a seasoned newb to this stuff.
I can't visualize/understand the DC itself shorting, if neg is connected to the spot in the schematic that denotes neg, and then pos, to pos. *note* I use plastic dc jacks.
Is he saying the 1/4" guitar patch cords may/will short? i.e. the practice of using a stereo jack on input as a switch? I thought the input/output caps were there to filter dc from the i/o and prevent that.
And if the 1/4 will short, then what difference would the power source  itself make, if the ped was in an audio daisy chain?
Would insulating the jacks from the box have any effect this?

I feel this is a concept I should *fully* understand, and thank you all in advance for any insight.
Knowledge for Knowledge's Sake

derevaun

#1
The way I take it, a positive ground circuit has all of its ground connections connected to +9v, including signal ground, jack sleeves, etc. The negative ground pedals have all of their grounds connected to GND aka negative. So the signal ground connections would connect the power supply's + to -.

jwin615

9v is ground, effectively, in these circuits. Youre actually running it as -9v. There's two way these schematics are drawn, conventional + and -, where it assumes you know positive is 0v, and gnd is -9v, and the reverse where it denotes the actual voltages.
You can use power adapters, in most cases, but they have to be isolated or fully independent from the others. You can wire it as center negative, provided you use isolated plastic jacks. Just remember when boxing it up, the center negative goes to the + of the circuit.
Amplified parts has a really good writeup on this
https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech-articles/pnp-positive-ground-pedals

skypn

Ok, I believe I understand now.
It's the fact that the audio jacks from different pedals are referencing different polarities, retaliative to themselves (right concept?), that when you daisy chain, those two "unique potentials" will now be connected, and therefore no longer unique, therefore shorting out.
Gentlemen, and of course Ladies:
Am I even close?
Knowledge for Knowledge's Sake

jwin615

It's with most pedals , negative is the ground and the voltage is the sky.
With PNP fuzzes, the world(electrically)turns upside down.
How loud a single is is relative to the ground, kinda.
The biggest 5hing you need to know is PNP fuzzes need isolation. Build all you like, just know they won't play the the "BOSS standard"
Can't daisy chain.

PNP were the first transistor design. We use NPN mostly now. Electrons flow in opposite directions between the two(kinda). Without getting into to much EE and conventional current flow vs actual, know that PNP need dedicated reverse polarity and you'll be good. There's no such thing as a -9vdc power adapter. You can use a standard 9v, but it needs to be separate. Cable the power jack accordingly.

In other words, I can make any DC voltage be positive or negative relative to ground.
It's all in design. Most primitive 2 legged components allow electrons to flow in either direction. They don't mind.
If you've ever read anythign a out PNP and NPN conversion of circuits, you'll hear flip the electrolytics (polarized) and power. That's because  no other components care. 11