I think I got got with some weird choices for fake parts

[claytushaywood]

I bought some semi-nice electroltyics and NOS'ish film caps on evilbay recently.  I didnt realize they were from china unfortunately until I had paid... whatever,  The weird part is that they really aren't high dollar parts.
Semi high I suppose, but not like mn3005's or tubes or something ya know.

I got some elna silmic capacitors- they look very similar to the real ones I got from partsconnexion, but they have an indentation of an X on top of em that the real ones dont have... also the leads look ghetto and were screwed up in the package.  And they all measure around 3.9uf (they're supposed to be 4.7uf) whereas 10 of the real elna silmic's I had left ALL measured 4.5uf- i paid like $5 for 20, which is a good deal on those, but nothing crazy good.  they dont look all that bad, they look good as a matter of fact- the indentations and the horrid oxidizing leads threw me off

I also got some of those big blue axial caps BC brand I believe.  you know the ones you use with you carbon comps in a fuzz pedal to make it look all tone'd out.  I paid like $4 for 10 of em.  I was suspicious of these from the getgo- I've never had any before these so I dont know what to compare them to, but the blue wrapper and printing on em looked ghetto- they actually all measured pretty dang good. 

I also bought some 2.2uf big 250v axial tubular vishay film caps.  I dont know, they look and measure ok too

I cant take very good pictures right now, it's late, but i'll post some tomorrow.  I was wondering if you guys thought that the chinese would even go through the trouble of faking these kinda parts?  Shipping was free on em too, so there couldnt have been that much profit.  i guess the $30 I spent is a decent penny in china, or is it?  i dont even know

I was thinking I could send a sample of the parts to someone that might know how to tell if they're fake.  i'm sure you all are familiar with those big blue lytics.  Isn't elna an american company?   Can I even open a case on ebay for fraudulent parts?  I think I did order the Elna Silmic "II" and they sent the regular Elna Silmic's, would that be openable?

Anyone know of a good site for big funky NOS parts for pedals, i kinda like doing my fuzzes like this and was thinking about doing a run of a bunch of different old skewl pedals on turret boards or something ridiculous like that for the fun of it?  I found a shop linked on this forum one time, but freakin lost it.  they had a little variety of "nicer" components and some "nos" pedal building parts... pretty cool... you know a place to get carbon comps, Dale metal films, tropical fish, bc blue caps, vishay axial films, polystyrene caps, all that jazz in one spot?  I think I found and lost a european site that had a good variety too.

Anyways, what do you think good sirs?

[GermanCdn]

I can't speak to whether they are fake or not, but I'll speak to the rest.

My experience with most Chinese vendors on ebay is that about 75% of the time if you complain about the parts in question, you'll likely get your money back no questions asked.  Whether that's because they know the parts are fake or not, or whether they just realize that negative feedback from enough people drives up their selling cost, and therefore it's cheaper to give away the problems, I don't know.  Anyway, if you feel you've been wronged, it's certainly an avenue you could pursue.

As far as European NOS type distributors, Banzai (www.banzaimusic.com) sounds like the company you might be thinking of.  They are an excellent company to deal with, and prices are usually pretty good.

[Scruffie]

IIRC some years back there was a large issue with fake electrolytics, to the point where some major companies were getting hurt.

Post pics so we can have a look.
Measuring and the values being close only applies if that value is within tollerance, if the parts you bought are 10% tollerance at 4.7uF and you're measuring 3.5uF, that's cause for concern, if they're 20% while out of spec (they could be manufacturer seconds or old) that's not so bad.

[timbo_93631]

you can always cut one and see if there is another one inside.  Classic Chinese method of making run of the mill electrolytics into "audiophile" grade caps.

[claytushaywood]

you can always cut one and see if there is another one inside.  Classic Chinese method of making run of the mill electrolytics into "audiophile" grade caps.

that cap inside the bigger one- the snap in electrolytic... the big one is rated at like 6800uf IIRC and the one going inside it is 2200uf... that should be obvious shouldnt it?

it's funny actually- the Elna Silmic's are small radial electrolytics like ones used in pedals.  I ordered two different values- 1 set of 10uf 16v
and 1 set of 4.7uf 50v

the smaller 10uf look real and the larger 50v ones look fake!

on the BC blue lytics- does the blue wrapper usually look kinda crappy... I mean like a little see throughish, the seems are noticeable and the printing a little bit smuged in places- Nothing too obvious, but just not that pristine at all.  They measure pretty freaking accurately.  If they're fake they're putting something much better than xicons inside them (and much better than any NOS electrolytic I've used in there) Or maybe I just got "lucky"

would anyone be interested in checking out some of these, just to see if they're fake.  Because if they're not (the dude has 99.9% positive feedback, and a lot of counts of it) he's a good seller for nicer pedal parts... The main reason I'd go to him is for these 100uf Panasonic FG's (forgot to mention those in the first post) and Elna's for $5 for 20 caps.

I dont know if these would be worth the whole cut open and put a smaller one inside method- they might be relabeled ones though

I dont think they've got the cut open

[alanp]

One giveaway with the axial (?) caps is that there is a crimp on both ends, where with good 'uns there is only a crimp on the positive end.

[claytushaywood]

a crimp? 

I messaged the guy telling him about the 4.7uf elna's measuring under 4uf consistently while my real Elna's ALL measure 4.6uf (a great choice for extremely accurate electrolytics- my xicons always measured at least 10% off and the elna's are only a few pennies more than xicons from the right sites- i'm thinking about replacing the cathode bypass caps in my amp with em)

anyways, he's refunding me for the Elna's (saying they might be 10 years old- but is Elna even 10 years old? i thought they were a new company), but he wont refund me for anything else saying they are totally legit.  I cant get a half decent picture with my camera phone.  Does anyone wanna message me their address and I can send them one of these BC caps to compare to a legit (non ebay one)? 

Also... which end is the poisitive (or negative end) on these caps? 
Thanks!

[DutchMF]

Hey claytus,

I'm not sure where you are located, but to my knowledge ELNA is an american company, and they should be quite easy to contact. Also, if you wanna compare yours to the real deal, Banzaimusic.com is a reputable seller with a nice selection of ELNA caps for about 19 cents euro each. Don't see the profit in forging something so cheap though.......
If you really want to go through the trouble, I'll order a couple of ELNA caps next time I'm gonna order from Banzai (which is pretty soon, I'm out of a lot of stuff), you can send me one of yours and I'll compare them side-by-side.

Good luck,

Paul

[claytushaywood]

Hey claytus,

I'm not sure where you are located, but to my knowledge ELNA is an american company, and they should be quite easy to contact. Also, if you wanna compare yours to the real deal, Banzaimusic.com is a reputable seller with a nice selection of ELNA caps for about 19 cents euro each. Don't see the profit in forging something so cheap though.......
If you really want to go through the trouble, I'll order a couple of ELNA caps next time I'm gonna order from Banzai (which is pretty soon, I'm out of a lot of stuff), you can send me one of yours and I'll compare them side-by-side.

Good luck,

Paul

yeh i really didnt think it would be worth it... but if you start thinking about other things that are fake in china...

It's pretty obvious to me based on measurments... I ordered two values of Elna's from this dealer... 10uf and 4.7uf.

I have both the values in the same exact style from partsconnexion- a canadian hi-fi parts company.

all the ones from china sat closer to a 3.3uf measurment and an 8.2uf measurement... basically right inside 20%.  Elna's are great capacitors though.... much, much better than xicon's or any other brand in the price range.  all the elna silmic's from parts connexion were within like 3%  mostly .1uf off which my meter is probably about that accurate with these values. 

I measured about 20 of each value from each supplier and the results were consistent across the board.  I think they even sent me 3.3ufs because they can use them for 2.2 and 4.7 and still be close to 20%

I mean the guy got a $45 order from me- i'd imagine that goes a way in china