Press n Peel madness!

[Marv Mod]

Hi guys, I'm looking for some guidance on Press n Peel Blue as I'm not having much luck. My steps are as per instructions:
Cut copper clad to size. Sand edges and de-burr. Clean with Scotchpad then wipe clean with alcohol to remove any grey gunk.
Preheat iron, lay PnP on the copper, lay iron on top and press for a good while until the PnP has adhered. Then I go over the board gently so that the traces on the PnP come up black, suggesting they have adhered to the board. When I reckon I've covered everything, I cool the board and peel the PnP off to reveal the results. Time spent about 5 mins.
As you can see from the results below, I'm not having great success. The smudges could suggest the iron is too hot and the toner has melted, but then the centres seem to have set fairly well. Also some remnants of blue PnP top paper stuck to the copper might also suggest too hot. But then on the Sunking board, entire traces have not set properly. Gah! I've set my iron on 2 (it has 3 settings) which is the acrylic / wool setting (I can't gague temperature to get to the optimum 275-300F) which seems to be about right, having checked other forums. My copper clad is approx 1.8mm thick total. The printer is an HP mono set to normal.
Any tips or any suggestions most welcome. I've screwed up 4 boards already and would like to get this nailed!!
Cheers, Jeremy

[attachment deleted by admin]

[irmcdermott]

I know the frustration you are feeling, especially since that paper is not cheap.

Let me preface this by saying that i do not use Press-n-Peel for my transfers, so I cannot say if it is something specific you need to do with that medium.

Speaking from my own experience with using magazine paper, and now moving onto Sterling Ultra Digital paper, the edges and corners are always the most difficult. I think a lot of times we don't heat them as much as we do the center. Not sure why. I always have to make sure that I spend extra time putting a lot of pressure around the edges of the board.

Also, one thing that will help you immensely no matter what paper you use, would be to invest in a small laminator to feed the boards through. I picked up a Scotch TL901 laminator at Target for less than $30. Now I start with the iron for a few minutes and then feed it through the laminator multiple times, then end by using the iron a bit more. Let the board cool (i've read somewhere that sticking the board in the freezer for like 10minutes before taking the paper off can help the toner "set", but i've never tried that though), then soak the board in water for like 10 minutes and it peels off easily.

Like I said, I don't use P-n-P, but that would be my suggestion. Good Luck!

Ian

[bigmufffuzzwizz]

I've been using PNP Blue because I bought a few sheets when I first got interested in etching. I used my home printer the first time and got good results. You do have to spend a little more time on the corners and edges and I do apply a good amount of pressure. My printer jammed and I went to staples to had them print for me, but that didn't work too well. The toner didn't transfer very well kinda like your sunking but not as bad. Finally got my printer going and sure enough works great again. My conclusion is the toner because that's the only thing that changed between my different attempts. I don't know enough to tell you what toner specifically is in my printer but its a Canon laser printer. Truthfully I peel the PNP Blue off within 5 mins. of finishing the heat transfer part and it works great. I've been wanting a laminator and to move to the Sterling Digital since its much more cost effective. I don't wanna just say you need new toner cause its fairly expensive, but try going to a local print shop and seeing if you get different results. That will give you a definite answer if it's your technique or the toner itself.

[cjkbug]

i stopped using pnp for the same reasons your stating. I'm using magazine paper("guitar player" is my favorite)
run through a laser printer I got on clearance at office depot for $59 bucks!!! with excellent results. for the most part, my smaller boards come out perfect. I have gotten good results with large boards and enclosures as well. and have succesfully pulled off a 5x7" faceplate. so I'm done with pnp. failure to success ratio is out of hand. at $2 a sheet it's way to expensive.

[irmcdermott]

Brian pointed me (and a bunch of others) in the direction of Sterling Ultra Digital paper. A ream of paper breaks down to about $0.04/sheet, and 500 sheets will last a LONG time because you can 1/2 or 1/4 the pages and tape them to regular paper. I'm getting the best transfers I've ever gotten with this new paper. One note though, I had a Brother printer that used some cheap toner, and it would not work with the paper. I always got great results using magazine paper with the Brother though. I'm now on an HP CP1025nw.

[jimmybjj]

Brian pointed me (and a bunch of others) in the direction of Sterling Ultra Digital paper. A ream of paper breaks down to about $0.04/sheet, and 500 sheets will last a LONG time because you can 1/2 or 1/4 the pages and tape them to regular paper. I'm getting the best transfers I've ever gotten with this new paper. One note though, I had a Brother printer that used some cheap toner, and it would not work with the paper. I always got great results using magazine paper with the Brother though. I'm now on an HP CP1025nw.

+1 i've used pnp and mag paper, sterling has provided me with the best results by far. i will also confirm that my brother laser printer was pretty crappy for transfers no matter what i used.

[cjkbug]

get a samsung. I do all my transfers and color decals with it. the thing is amazing.

[Marv Mod]

Thanks for all the thoughts guys. I reckon my problem lies with toner quality. I got the PnP done on my brother-in-law's printer and he tells me he uses one of these refilled cartridges, rather than a branded one from the manufacturer. That's got to be a consideration given that I've done 4 boards and none has come out right.
My next step will be to find another laser printer and try again, then I'll really know if it's a matter of toner quality or technique on my part.
Cheers, Jeremy

[jimmybjj]

get a samsung. I do all my transfers and color decals with it. the thing is amazing.

+1 I've researched this alot and this seems to be the right answer, no one seems to have any complaints.  My next printer will be a samsung.

[masterlk]

Recently I bought a refilled cartridge and I used it for the first time last night for an etching of a 1590A. It transfered flawlessly using the Sterling Ultra paper. I went this route because a name brand toner cartridge for my HP is about $150(I think it was) and the refilled was like $40. Not sure if the refill vs name brand makes a difference. Maybe someone else can relay their experience. Anyway...wish me luck on the etch! As I said the transfer went beautiful but my choice of some of the font size may have been a bit wishful...so...we'll see. Hopefully I'll have pics soon.

Nick

I got the PnP done on my brother-in-law's printer and he tells me he uses one of these refilled cartridges, rather than a branded one from the manufacturer. That's got to be a consideration given that I've done 4 boards and none has come out right.

[Mike @ Rawkworks]

What I've found to help is to heat the PCB before I put the paper on. I just turn my iron (on hottest setting) upside down and rest the board on it for a min or two. Then carefully place the paper on and continue with the method.


I'm using a samsung laser printer (brand new for 75 bucks) and photopaper FWIW

[bigmufffuzzwizz]

get a samsung. I do all my transfers and color decals with it. the thing is amazing.

What model would you recommend? Or any of them will work?

I'm using a samsung laser printer (brand new for 75 bucks) and photopaper FWIW

Same question 

[Mike @ Rawkworks]

Mine is the  Samsung ml2525, 68.95. The paper is HP semigloss photopaper, 50 sheets for 15 bucks. HP offers discounts thru Starbucks. Look around if you are a student too, lotsa deals for students usually.

And even tho you didn't ask, abcfab on eBay has good pcb. For about 100 bucks you could be set up to etch looooots of board

[bigmufffuzzwizz]

Abcfab is the guy I went through also. I'm very satisfied with his product and highly recommend him also.

[jimmybjj]

get a samsung. I do all my transfers and color decals with it. the thing is amazing.

What model would you recommend? Or any of them will work?

I'm using a samsung laser printer (brand new for 75 bucks) and photopaper FWIW

Same question 

Brian said he uses the ml-2525 in this thread

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=673.0

Concernig the brother printers the pulsar guy say "BROTHER: All new "4-digit" 1,200 dpi units
Will not work because they have a epoxy based toner

http://www.pcbfx.com/main_site/pages/start_here/printer_info.html