in constant sorrowwwwwwww- Amp settings:feeback, volume,etc

[Gledison]

Dear Experts.
as usual another trouble on my way.
I´ve got some time ago a Marshall Haze 40w (2x EL34 and Celestion G12T-66 12 ).
Im trying to setup the volume/tone for rehearsal. The damn thing is too, tooo loud already on the clean channel.
The volume pot starts to kick on the 2 (8´clock) and it really goes till 11
I read lods of information regarding on how to get the best sound out of it regarding volume/tone. Some people suggests attenuator, but i´ve never used and have no clue about it (sharing experiences highly welcome

So, to fit all the band, i have to set my volume to 3 max 4, which is already loud for a small room. Sounds crap of course, no juice from the Valves
Somehow, i started to experiment and after long 6 hours i managed to reduce the volume by adjusting the volume of my pedals.
i reduced a lot the volume of the pedals and then, increased the volume of the Amp (clean channel). it sounds ok (just ok).
i have a strong feedback as well which goes away when i reduce the volume of my Fuzz face ( Amp>Crybaby>TS>FF>ZeroPoint DD)
of course, if i want to turn the pedal off for a clean signal, will blow some brains in the room :S
Im kind of lost on the possibilites of improvement.
I would like to ask your help here considering that i still want to keep this Amp (low budget )
other question: is a 40W really too much for rehearsal?
thanks a lot for any help!!!
Gledison

[Stomptown]

As far as attenuators go, it will not get you all the way where you want to go (reduces natural speaker distortion) but it might get you close enough to justify the expense rather than buying a practice amp. I would try the Dr Z Brake Lite if you can find one for a decent price. They seem to hold their value so if you can find one around $130-$140 you should be able to get your money back if you are unhappy with it.

I think 40 Watts is a bit much for a practice amp myself but it depends on the type of music and how loud you practice. If you play a lot of shows and practice is more of a utility thing I would say deal with the crappy toan, however if practice is your primary outlet for making noise then obviously achieving that sound your looking for becomes more important.

I tried attenuators and was not really satisfied so I downsized to a Vox AC15. It made sense since I mostly play bars where 40 watts in a bit much. Ten years ago I was rocking a 60 watt amp and playing a lot of larger venues so an attenuator for practice/small shows made sense.  I guess I'm trying to say that you should look at the big picture and see what will work best for your situation...

[Gledison]

As far as attenuators go, it will not get you all the way where you want to go (reduces natural speaker distortion) but it might get you close enough to justify the expense rather than buying a practice amp. I would try the Dr Z Brake Lite if you can find one for a decent price. They seem to hold their value so if you can find one around $130-$140 you should be able to get your money back if you are unhappy with it.

I think 40 Watts is a bit much for a practice amp myself but it depends on the type of music and how loud you practice. If you play a lot of shows and practice is more of a utility thing I would say deal with the crappy toan, however if practice is your primary outlet for making noise then obviously achieving that sound your looking for becomes more important.

I tried attenuators and was not really satisfied so I downsized to a Vox AC15. It made sense since I mostly play bars where 40 watts in a bit much. Ten years ago I was rocking a 60 watt amp and playing a lot of larger venues so an attenuator for practice/small shows made sense.  I guess I'm trying to say that you should look at the big picture and see what will work best for your situation...

yeahh, difficult point.
I´m just starting with this band and is definetly a hobby. some gigs per year but not much.
I also would like to record with the amp, and with the current situation is impossible (at full crunch) :S
Last time i played in a middle size venue and the sound guy asked me to reduce the volume (they always do )
The thing is that i was at my volume on 3. so i had to add the mic a bit further. This was weird. I´ve seen guys playing the amps full power and with the mic totally attached to the amp. What about recording in studio? it wouldnt be too loud to play a 40-50w amp full power to get a nice tone out of it? how they do it?
Do you have any experience with the acrylic shield? would that helps on rehearsal rooms?
thanks for helping

[lars]

You might want to check this site out. It looks like you can adapt your current setup for lower-power tubes, which could allow you to drive the amp into that "sweet" territory without blowing everybody out the window:
http://www.tonetronix.com/c/THD-Yellow-Jacket-EL84-Power-Tube-Converters.html

[Gledison]

You might want to check this site out. It looks like you can adapt your current setup for lower-power tubes, which could allow you to drive the amp into that "sweet" territory without blowing everybody out the window:
http://www.tonetronix.com/c/THD-Yellow-Jacket-EL84-Power-Tube-Converters.html

Ohhhhh! this looks great! But to be honest i have to read more about it. im quite scared of fooling around with the valves :S
thanks a lot man, really apreciated!

[GermanCdn]

Attenuator might work for you, might not.  Dr. Z, Swart, THD, and I think Hughes and Kettner all make them, though THD can be pricey.  Eminence also makes some speakers that have built in passive attenuation, that might be an option, though it's really hard to find. 

If not, see if you can't trade up for a downsized amp.  My suggestion would be the Mesa Boogie TA-15 or TA-30 if you can find it - killer lunch box amps and still pretty freaking loud.  You can set each channels output independently (5, 15, or 25W), so you can have your clean and dirty channels arranged differently for headroom.  Might be a little tough to find used in Deutschland, but it's also probably not that hard to unload the Marshall for a decent price if you do.

[Leevibe]

time to build a 5F1!

[Gledison]

Does anyone tried Lars idea? changing the tubes for those yellow jacket tubes?

i might build a attenuator to give it a try. I opened a separate thread for that.
cheers

[gordo]

What sort of sound are you after?  Switching to EL84/yellow jackets might rein in the volume a bit but will affect the tone as well.  Use the OD channel to warm up the amp a bit?  I think you'll find the acrylic shield can help at gigs slightly but in a smaller practice space won't do much good.

[Gledison]

What sort of sound are you after?  Switching to EL84/yellow jackets might rein in the volume a bit but will affect the tone as well.  Use the OD channel to warm up the amp a bit?  I think you'll find the acrylic shield can help at gigs slightly but in a smaller practice space won't do much good.

hey,
im looking for the full power tube distortion from my Marshall, like 70's kind of low gain overdriven sound.  im looking now into build some attenuator
thanks

[Jopn]

Somehow, i started to experiment and after long 6 hours i managed to reduce the volume by adjusting the volume of my pedals.
i reduced a lot the volume of the pedals and then, increased the volume of the Amp (clean channel). it sounds ok (just ok).

Have you tried tossing something in the effects loop to cut your volume?  If you toss a volume pedal or something like an OD set to clean with the volume turned down you should be able to still push your front end but tame it before moving on to your power amp and speaker.

And yes you'll be missing out on any breakup from your power tubes and speaker, but since I imagine you have at least one pedal on hand that can be set clean and has a volume knob, it's free to try and just might be good 'nuff.

[Gledison]

Somehow, i started to experiment and after long 6 hours i managed to reduce the volume by adjusting the volume of my pedals.
i reduced a lot the volume of the pedals and then, increased the volume of the Amp (clean channel). it sounds ok (just ok).

Have you tried tossing something in the effects loop to cut your volume?  If you toss a volume pedal or something like an OD set to clean with the volume turned down you should be able to still push your front end but tame it before moving on to your power amp and speaker.

And yes you'll be missing out on any breakup from your power tubes and speaker, but since I imagine you have at least one pedal on hand that can be set clean and has a volume knob, it's free to try and just might be good 'nuff.

yesss! we are just discussing this on the other thread (where we are discussing what would be more suitable). you are right and i will definatly try it. However i've seen some videos of people using attenuators and it sounds quite nice with the power tube cranked up

[lars]

One other idea, it looks like there are a couple of NE5532 op-amps in there for the preamp section. If you just find out which resistors control the gain of these (probably between pins 1&2), you can change them. Maybe set the preamp for unity and let the power amp section work harder to get the volume up. This will probably give you the added benefit of a higher S/N ratio from the op-amps.