madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => Tech Help - Projects Page => Topic started by: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 09:20:10 AM

Title: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 09:20:10 AM
Hey chaps,

Putting together an Aquaboy from the extra projects (madbean) section and im having an issue.  Im only getting clean output.  Heres a few observations that might help you....help me :)

- Get a high pitched squeling on pin 2 and 6 of the bbd (i think thats good yeah?)
- Adjusting clock trimmer changes the frequency of the squel on pin 2 and 6 until it gets so high you cant hear it (again, i think thats working correctly?)
- Get a distorted guitar signal on pin 7 of the bbd.  Turning the bias trimpot acts like a volume control
- None of the dials do anything
- Nothing but clean on the output.  Its a perfect clean signal :D
- Here are some voltages from the bbd and the clock:

v3205 (coolaudio)
1 0v
2 4v
3 3.4v
4 3.4v
5 7.99v
6 4v
7 0.68v
8 7.3v

Clock (mn3101)
1 8v
2 4v
3 0v
4 4v
5 3.8v
6 4v
7 4v
8 7.3v

EDIT: i've got a strong feeling that the bbd is not output the delayed signal.  with an audio probe i get clean signal on pins 2 3 and 7 on the compandor, but nothing from any of the other pins (ie, nothing from the delay signal!).  I have no idea why though...Everything seems in order, up till it hits the bbd.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: madbean on February 26, 2013, 10:57:58 AM
Here's a checklist.

Have you set the jumpers correctly?
Have you audio probed pins 3 and 4 of the BBD and confirmed there is no delayed signal from the BBD no matter where the BIAS pot is set (the two pins on the upper right of the BBD)?
Have you used the correct value trimpots for Clock and Bias?
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 11:09:41 AM
The answer to those questions is yep, yep and yep!  The bias trimmer is a 20k (couldnt get 22k).  Ive been audio probing most of the ic's, i get no delay signal anywwhere...

The compander is an NE570N, it has an "S" or a "5" symbol on it.  Not sure if that matters.  I dont think it does.  I've seen others use NE570N's in the aquaboy...

This ones stumped me...

Edit: I checked the middle leg of the bias trimmer and it swings from about 7.63v to 0v so i guess its working correctly.

Paul
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 11:24:07 AM
Here are some more voltages hopefully someone can spot something wrong here.  These voltages look awefully repeatitive :|

LF353
1 4.4v
2 4.4v
3 4.4v
4 0v
5 4.4v
6 4.4v
7 4.4v
8 8.8v

NE570N
1 1v
2 1.8v
3 1.8v
4 0v
5 1.8v
6 1.8v
7 3v
8 1.8v
9 1.8v
10 3v
11 3v
12 1.8v
13 8.8v
14 1.8v
15 18v
16 0.8v

Edit: Yep, the bbd's are not passing the delayed signal.  If i audio probe q3 or q4 i get no signal, they are both silent. 

Unfortunately the reason why is beyond my knowledge.

Thanks again,
Paul
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: apollo on February 26, 2013, 06:21:14 PM
You say you're using a mn3101? Should that be a 3102?
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 09:06:30 PM
Build doc says you can use either
Paul
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: stecykmi on February 26, 2013, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 09:06:30 PM
Build doc says you can use either
Paul

i believe he's right, you'll need the v3102. you can use either, but they must be matched with the correct bbd chip.
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 10:10:46 PM
Really!?  Wow, thats not how i interrupted the build doc.  Thanks for pointing that out!

So just to be clear, does it need to be a v3102 or can it be either a v3102 or mn3102?  There are plenty of mn3102's on ebay, v3102 are a different story.

Thanks for your help!
Paul

Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: apollo on February 26, 2013, 10:26:05 PM
Both will work, use the mn or v 3102 with the v3205.  :)
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: RobA on February 26, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
I think you can use a BL3102 as well.

Smallbear has the V3102 for $2.75.
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 26, 2013, 10:37:10 PM
Small bear shipping to oz unfortunately makes his store pretty not an even option for me...which sucks, but anyway, they are on fakebay for $2 bucks shipped (the mn3102 that is).

I misinterrupted this line from the build doc:

"MN3101 is recommended for IC4 in all versions, but you can use the
v3102 or MN3102 if you are building the v3205/MN3205 BBD version."


I thought it meant, you know, the mn3101 will work with ALL versions (inc the v3205), but the v/mn3102's are 'optional'.  Clearly not what it means though i can see that now.

Thanks for pointing this out!  So great when its an easy fix like this :)

Cheers!
Paul
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: madbean on February 27, 2013, 12:06:38 AM
You can use the MN3101 with the v3205. You do need to use the 1n914 diode on the board to approximate the correct Vgg voltage on pin (not needed with the v3102). Your vgg voltage is a little on the low side but it should be close enough to make the bbd operate correctly. So, whether the problem resides in the clock or the bbd you are using, I don,t know. It would not hurt to have an Mn3102 or v3102 on hand to test.
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 27, 2013, 12:09:21 AM
Thats what i suspected.... (either works).  dam it.

I have the mn3102 on its way, ill test that.  No idea why this ones not working.

Edit: Forgot to mention im using a 1MC pot for delay, i figured that wouldnt make much difference but i thought the aquaboy used an A not a B taper...So i will probably have to have the pot on about 4/5th rotation for a similar resistance.  I will also try and be more precise with my trimpot turning, ive heard there is a very specific spot where the delay will turn on. I havent been listening carefull when adjusting the trimmer, and these Tayda trimmers are so clunky...Anyway, ill try again tonight,

Thanks again,
Paul
Title: Re: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: jimilee on February 27, 2013, 01:39:42 AM
Have you also checked for solder bridges? All the basic stuff?
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 27, 2013, 08:27:30 AM
Jimilee, Im the solder bridge checking lord :)

Well, i got it working!  And theres nothing more i cant stand then a tech help thread without an explanation to fixing it so here goes.

First problem, the delay pot is a log C.  So instead of half way i put it on about 3/4 but i dont think this was the real problem. 

Audio probing pin 7 is a waste of time (in my situation it is anyway).  All i get is clean guitar, which i thought, it should be?  Its the input?  So instead i set the clock trimmer to just out of audible frequency, incase your new to the foray, to do this, audio probe pins 2 and 6 and turn the clock till you cant hear it.  Now, while strumming your gutiar, audio probe pin 3 (the output), you will probably hear nothing coming through, but turn the bias until you can hear the bbd sort of, start up. Thats right mr optopus, you will have fun doing all 3 of these things at once.   Once you hear your guitar signal you will have output.

Oh yeah and as Brian confirmed (and i suspected) you can use the mn3101 with the v3205. 

Now to start on the mods! (double delay / modulation).

Thanks for everyones help! 

Paul
Title: Re: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: jimilee on February 27, 2013, 04:37:37 PM
I figured you knew what you were doing, it looked like everyone started on rhe hard stuff first. Sometimes I overlook the easy stuff myself like say, making sure my guitar is plugged in. Can't tell you how many times I've done that. :'(
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: RobA on February 27, 2013, 05:58:14 PM
Hey, me too. I sat there probing around my breadboard trying to figure out why I was just getting noise for about 5 minutes the other day before I finally looked down and saw I hadn't plugged in to my guitar.  :-[.
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 27, 2013, 10:31:40 PM
Sorry RobA didnt mean to sound all superior :) Happens to the best of us.  I was just thinking of the minimum, 1 hour, of scratching those tracks when you suggested it lol

The BOM says to probe pin 7 (the input) while adjusting the bias of the BBD.  Thats what was causing the confusion for me. 

Paul
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: RobA on February 27, 2013, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: chromesphere on February 27, 2013, 10:31:40 PM
Sorry RobA didnt mean to sound all superior :) Happens to the best of us.  [...]

I think you were really directing that at Jimi, but no problems on my part. And you are right, it certainly does happen to everyone. It can be frustrating too.
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: chromesphere on February 27, 2013, 11:50:03 PM
Quote from: RobA on February 27, 2013, 11:49:00 PM
Quote from: chromesphere on February 27, 2013, 10:31:40 PM
Sorry RobA didnt mean to sound all superior :) Happens to the best of us.  [...]

I think you were really directing that at Jimi, but no problems on my part. And you are right, it certainly does happen to everyone. It can be frustrating too.

lol so i was.  I have lost my mind working on this delay, you will have to excuse me :)

Paul
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: jimilee on February 28, 2013, 12:41:47 AM
What'd I miss? There was a disturbance in the force and I came to see my name!
Title: Re: Clean output from Aquaboy
Post by: madbean on February 28, 2013, 01:33:27 AM
Yeah, it should say pins 3 and 4 for output. I'll fix that.