This is a question for Brian or if anybody knows, I'd appreciate some info.
The handmade PCB's I've received from Brian are different colors than the usual standard tan. I've seen black and red, where can I get these different copper clad boards for my own PCB projects?
Also, for anybody who has tried using photo paper to transfer their images, has anybody had good luck with that? I've ironed the heck out of my boards but when I try to get the paper off, it DOES NOT WORK. I get down to the bottom layer and it just won't budge, not with my thumbs anyway. I can try to use a pin but it's really hard to get off even then, and it's scratching off the toner from the transfer as well. I'm pretty sure I applied enough heat so I think it's just me being rough with the pin or my fingernails that's causing the toner to scratch off.
Thanks for any help and suggestions!
For the PCBs check out this thread, brian gives a link to the guy he buys from on ebay:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=185.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=185.0)
What brand of photo paper are you using? You will see a lot of places say that Staples brand is the easiest, but they have changed their paper and the type that used to work really well for transfers does not anymore. I use just regular old magazine paper for my transfers and it works great. And it's free because my wife and I get so many friggin' catalogues in the mail it's ridiculous.
The newest brand of Staples paper is no good for transfers, unfortunately. Here's a list of reliable transfer media:
Press N' Peel Blue
Magazine paper
Transparency (not quite as reliable)
Sterling Ultra Digital paper (what I currently use)
The Sterling stuff is printer paper with a glossy surface and clay backing. It's pretty great once you get the technique nailed down. The secret is using less heat (I put my iron about 2/3 of the way up). After ironing for a few minutes, soak in water for about 5 minutes. It can usually be removed easily. Any paper that's left can be rolled off with your thumb under the tap. It's not perfect all the time, but still pretty reliable. Best of all, it breaks down to about $.03 per 8.5x11 sheet when bought as a 500 sheet pack. You have to get good fusion because touch-ups will remove the paper and toner if it's not adequately bonded.
Another benefit is that is you let the transfer air dry or use heat gun, the paper stays white. This makes drilling a snap when using darker colored PCB...the contrast level is perfect.
do you drill before you etch?
that sounds easier, but I never have the confidence to go through all that drilling until my traces come out fine.
I use magazine paper cut out of a magazine.
I drill after etching. Couple reasons: one, it's possible you could damage the transfer by a bum drill, and two, sometimes a transfer that looks good etches bad and becomes pointless to drill. My case is a little different because I have a certain quality that has to be met before I will pass a board. Lots of bum etches get thrown away at the madbeanpedals chemical factory of love. But, for personal use I'll use boards that are below that quality if I'm prototyping or just building something for myself (well, pretty much everything I build is for me already).
madbean- do you find that both sides of the sterling ultra paper are the same? I've never noticed a difference in the 2 sides myself, but sometimes I seem to have better luck on certain printed pages, so I'm curious what you think about that.
thanks
Nice. Ordered some CEM online for $10!
Ok, I know i'm hijacking my own thread here, but I ordered some drill bits from Ebay, and I'm a little unsure if I'll be able to use them in my drill press. I have a Skil drill press, the cheap $120 one from Lowes:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_197820-46922-3320-01_0__?productId=1207335&Ntt=dill+press&pl=1¤tURL=/pl__0__s%3FNtt%3Ddill%2Bpress
I'm not sure if the drill bits will be big enough to be able tighten the chuck on my press. I've heard of using a dremel, but this seems very inconsistent. Anybody have any suggestions?
Not sure what drill bits you got, but the ones I use are carbide tip wire gauge. They have a 1/8" shank and my cheap-o drill press chucks down on that, no problems.
I got my bits from harbor freight and I've found that's really all I needed to get started. They have a mixed set for about 7 bucks in the rotary tool section. The ones with the white collar work well for just about every hole. I use a slightly bigger bit to drill the holes for 1n400x diodes. A little trial & error, and you're on your way.
There's a thread around here somewhere in which I asked Brian a bunch of drill bit questions. I'll see if I can find it for you.
found it
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=295.0
Thanks man I'll check them out. I don't know why but I have this terrible itch to start making PCB's...I know it's a detailed process but that's the fun right?
Does this look like it will work?
http://www.harborfreight.com/30-piece-twist-drill-bit-grab-bag-44756.html
I have the same drill press (skil) as you and mine will hold tiny wire thin bits no problem. I got a special 2nd chuck for holding small drill bits but I don't use it. just visually watch the bit spin to make sure its straight before you start. and go slow it might seem easy but pcb's are actually really hard.
Awesome, that allays my fears a bit. Now I can't wait to get my bits.
Ok I think I'll go with magazine paper. I did three PCB's and everything worked like a charm. We'll see if drilling is this easy....
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Quote from: MullisMan on November 15, 2010, 10:24:03 PM
Ok I think I'll go with magazine paper. I did three PCB's and everything worked like a charm. We'll see if drilling is this easy....
Be patient with the drilling.... it takes practice. Don't get discouraged your first few times of trying it. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
Quote from: Haberdasher on November 14, 2010, 10:48:57 PM
madbean- do you find that both sides of the sterling ultra paper are the same? I've never noticed a difference in the 2 sides myself, but sometimes I seem to have better luck on certain printed pages, so I'm curious what you think about that.
thanks
bump for 'bean.
do you think there is a difference between front or back?
Not as far as I can tell. I think it is more of a consistency of application. I started getting much better results once I backed off the heat on my iron. Some traces can get a little aliased, but not too bad. Today I tried letting the transfer cool to room temperature before immersing in water. It worked well: seems like the adhesion was a lot stronger.
Thanks :)
I only use the laminator with one or two passes through and it seems to do the trick. If too much heat is used it's very difficult to remove the paper afterwards. There is definitely a happy medium in there.
BTW, I found that the S.U.D. gloss cover released cleaner and easier than their gloss text paper.
Sooooo. I ordered the Sterling Ultra Digital, and I'm not having any luck getting a transfer. I was making the switch because I'm tired of taped on magazine paper jamming up my printer.
I'm beginning to wonder if they sent me the wrong product, because by everything you all are telling me, it shouldn't be as difficult for me to get a transfer. I'm talking, I sometime don't get anything, no matter how much time/heat I apply or how many times I put it through the laminator, I can't get a good (if at all) transfer. Portions of the toner will transfer, but not the whole board.
So, I will first ask, when you order from AJ&S Papers, what does the packaging for the S.U.D. paper look like? Any logo, or is it just in a big box like mine came in? This is what I ordered....
http://www.ajandspaper.com/sterling-ultra-digital6.html (http://www.ajandspaper.com/sterling-ultra-digital6.html)
Quote from: irmcdermott on June 10, 2011, 02:03:51 AM
Sooooo. I ordered the Sterling Ultra Digital, and I'm not having any luck getting a transfer. I was making the switch because I'm tired of taped on magazine paper jamming up my printer.
I'm beginning to wonder if they sent me the wrong product, because by everything you all are telling me, it shouldn't be as difficult for me to get a transfer. I'm talking, I sometime don't get anything, no matter how much time/heat I apply or how many times I put it through the laminator, I can't get a good (if at all) transfer. Portions of the toner will transfer, but not the whole board.
So, I will first ask, when you order from AJ&S Papers, what does the packaging for the S.U.D. paper look like? Any logo, or is it just in a big box like mine came in? This is what I ordered....
http://www.ajandspaper.com/sterling-ultra-digital6.html (http://www.ajandspaper.com/sterling-ultra-digital6.html)
I ordered from the same place, works great for me. What laminator are you using? This is what mine looks like.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_KuLDtoN3rQ/TfGFLO3tUZI/AAAAAAAABQY/6bC4J7qs2UU/s400/photo.JPG)
mine definitely didn't come like that. someone from AJ&S is emailing me this late (because they are watching the NBA finals game) telling me that he sent an extra ream to say thank you, but it is definitely the Sterling.
This is what showed up....
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy207/irmcdermott/photo-5.jpg)
My laminator is a Scotch TL901. Don't think that is the problem. It gets extremely hot.
I almost had a complete transfer. I'm just not getting good results yet.
Hmmmm I don't know. Have you tried using a iron to see if you get a complete transfer? I know it defeats the purpose of having the laminator but it sounds like you are having uneven heat transfer. If we can eliminate one variable at a time we might be able to come closer to finding the problem. If you want PM me your addresss and I'll drop a couple sheets of the stuff I have in the mail so that you can compare yours to mine.
My experience has been the sterling stuff works way better than any photopaper I have tried. I do a iron/laminator/iron method that is pretty darn successful most of the time. I'm using the brother laser printer that everyone on the other forum says doesn't work because of the crappy toner.
I finally got a good etch after about 20 attempts, I guess the learning curve was just more than I was expecting. I'm so used to using magazine paper, where 1min30sec with an iron gets a good transfer, I think I was also just being impatient. Still not sure. AJ&S still swears it's 2 reams of Sterling. I might take you up on getting a sheet from you to compare.
I'm also using a Brother printer, so maybe that is part of it. I plan on buying a new printer in a few months so I can stop feeling guilty about using all the toner from my work provided printer for my hobby :) I also want to get a color laserjet so I can do my decals from home and not somewhere else.
I do use the iron/laminate/iron method, because that's what Brian suggests. Like I said, I think it just takes longer than my old method.
I also think it's a bit humorous that the guy the wrote an Etching Tutorial that Brian is getting ready to put online is asking questions about toner transfer :) But that tutorial uses magazine paper, which I've used for over a year now with great success.