I was searching the interwebz for the clock frequency on the Ibanez CS9, but I haven't found anything. Does anyone know what the factory setting is? Or does anyone have an original unit that they could measure? I had two, myself, but they've been lost to bad band members over the years :P I was planning to pick another one up, but they're pretty pricy right now in the used market.
I'd say check out deadendfx's build doc for their Mangel Wurzel. It's based on the CS-99, which I think is based on the old Maxon/Ibanez CS-505. They do mention clock frequencies in the doc, so that could at least give you a starting point.
I still want someone to just do a straight CS-9 clone PCB, no mods or additions...
Thanks I'll check that out. I'd still like to get a few reference values from a real unit. I might have to bight the bullet and buy one :P
Quote from: Bret608 on August 09, 2021, 08:23:16 PM
I still want someone to just do a straight CS-9 clone PCB, no mods or additions...
That's actually what I'm working on and the reason I asked ;D I'm starting to suspect that the clock frequency might be the main difference between the CS9 and the CE-2. The circuits are pretty darn close, except CS9 has a trimmer for the clock and CE-2 has a fixed value.
I've heard the circuits are close, so that could very well be the main difference. Best of luck with the tracing and PCB!
This has some info, hope it helps
https://www.tonehome.de/app/download/8636869/Ibanez_UE300_servicemanual.pdf
That's exactly what I was looking for!! Thank you! 8)
Side note: Searching the internet for the proper trimmer settings led me to a lot of weird posts. Apparently, if you max out the bias trim on a CS9 you can increase the output volume of the pedal and use it like a boost. Who knew! ::)
Edit: This was meant to be sarcastic. I don't want to inadvertently be adding to dumb stuff on the internet. ;D
Damn, I read CE-2 but in my head it came back as CE-1. Oh well. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with though.
Find at simulator (I use CANEDA) freq curve of first lowpass filter before delay line. Knee freq is max. freq going to delay line. Clock must be cca 3,5 times higher.
My tip is 5,5kHz for filter, so minimal clock 22kHz.
Quote from: Bio77 on August 09, 2021, 08:53:45 PM
I'm starting to suspect that the clock frequency might be the main difference between the CS9 and the CE-2. The circuits are pretty darn close, except CS9 has a trimmer for the clock and CE-2 has a fixed value.
I think the a delay time ranges are different between the two. The CS9 is 3.2 - 8.5ms and the CE2 is something like 5 - 40ms.
Quote from: Bio77 on August 11, 2021, 01:13:46 AM
Side note: Searching the internet for the proper trimmer settings led me to a lot of weird posts. Apparently, if you max out the bias trim on a CS9 you can increase the output volume of the pedal and use it like a boost. Who knew! ::)
If you want tricks...You could turn down the feedback control on and FL9 and Blam-o ... You've got yourself a CS9 with a delay time control. Just set it somewhere near noon for the CS9 time
( edit: I was half joking but decided to try it anyway and see how close I could get. The FL9 sounds much darker and there is less dry signal mixed in. This will get you a chorus type sound in a pinch, but it's definitely not the same sparkly sound you get from a CS9)
I noticed in the schematic of the UE300, Ibanez substituted a 3007/3101 delay set in place of the 3207/3201 in the stand alone version. I'm guessing battery versus transformer for the reason. Will the clock frequency delay time response of the different pairs be different? The proper setting for the clock frequency in the UE300 is 80 kHz.
I checked the data sheets for both, the 3007 has a clock freq range of 10-100 kHz and a delay time range of 5.12-51.2 ms, while the 3207 has a clock freq range of 10-200 kHz and a delay time range of 2.56-51.2 ms.
For the lowest clock freq about 10kHz you will get max. freq border at 3kHz for signal going to delay line. Poorly sufficient for chorus or flanger.
Quote from: Zerro on August 18, 2021, 11:43:00 PM
For the lowest clock freq about 10kHz you will get max. freq border at 3kHz for signal going to delay line. Poorly sufficient for chorus or flanger.
Is there an equation relating clock frequency to delay time on a BBD? Is the relationship linear? Or is there a way to reliably measure delay times with a scope?
I found it: https://www.electrosmash.com/mn3007-bucket-brigade-devices (https://www.electrosmash.com/mn3007-bucket-brigade-devices)
Looks like the stages are the same, so, the clock frequency setting will produce the same delay time in both. Makes sense, CE-2 has a fixed clock and both the 3007 and 3207 work in that circuit.
Aentons has already given you the answer, Delay time range "3.2 - 8.5mS", 1024 stages / 2 x clock frequency = 160-60kHz.
Here is a gutshot of the Ibanez BC9 I have. Looks like it has the 22M resistor that shows up in the CS9 and BCL schematics.
Awesome, thanks!
I compared the BCL and CS9 schematics and they appear almost exactly the same with the addition of the A lfo section. A & B are in parallel and the B section is what is in the CS9.
I was never quite sure how close the BC9/BCL was to the CS9 but this confirms that if I turn down the A section on the BC9, it is indeed just like a CS9. Awesome!
Let me know if you want any more pics or want me to verify any other values from the BC9 and I'll be glad to.
Thank you! I appreciate it.
I think I'm almost done. I included two 11M resisters in series in my layout. I'm building up the PCB this weekend and I just had a moment of doubt because 22M is pretty much infinity ;D
This project has been super informative and fun. Hopefully I'll have a sweet pedal too :P
Maybe you should simply set to the clock circuit some capacitor, around 47-68pF and test by ear what you need. Without some junk speculations :@)