I'm pretty new to pedal building, and looking for advice. Many of the projects I look at suggest having an Oscilloscope, and/or audio probe as part of your general tools to work with. Any suggestions on what are good items to get for a beginner? I'd rather get something good, than take the cheap path, but don't want to break the bank either. I've never used either one, so it would be helpful to get something that is user friendly if possible. Thanks ! Rob
If the build calls for an oscilloscope, you might want to leave that project for a few years until you've got your feet wet. Brian (and others) have done a really good job in defining difficulty levels of builds, and it's advisable to start from the ground up. It'll take a while until you've exhausted those options. And everyone needs to build every variant possible of the BMP.
Don't cheap out on the soldering iron. Not saying you need to buy a Hakko right away (though you won't regret buying it), but getting the cheapest one available is equally unadvisable. Adjustable output would be advantageous, as you can then dial it in for the solder you're using.
A good set of flush cutting snips is nice. Big bulky wire cutters meant for household wring are not so much fun. Xcelite or Knipex would be my choice, but they're expensive. But the cheap ones tend not to last. And never, EVER, cut a guitar string with them.
Don't cheap out on the wire strippers either. Yes you can pick up cheap ones, but they tend to do a lousy job and break. I think I settled on a pair of adjustable Irwins I really liked (I haven't unpacked my build kit in a long time).
A good quality step bit for drilling enclosures.
Audio probes are fairly easy to build on your own, and there are boards out there for them as well.
A good desk lamp/magnifying glass.
A small fan to blow the soldering fumes away.
A power bar with dedicated lit switch which sits on top of your build desk which EVERYTHING is plugged in to. Because you're going to forget to turn your iron off, so if it's running off a power bar and you turn that off, you're covered.
A Beavis Board-style hookup for audio probing and "rocking outside the box" is pretty essential, as are a decent adjustable-temp soldering iron, some quality solder (I use Kester), a Helping Hands variant for awkward angles, a stripper/crimper, decent wire cutters, and an adjustable wrench or socket set (e.g. the Rocket Sockets at Love My Switches). At some point, I also invested in a drill press to make the enclosure process easier. Oscopes can be useful for certain builds (like synths and LFO-based stuff), but they are - for the cost, anyway - overkill in most instances; one can easily build a great-sounding tremolo, vibrato, fuzz, OD, distortion, delay, phaser, flanger, etc. without them.
100% agree with what has been said.
Get some desoldering wick, and maybe splurge on the ss2 solder sucker (forget who makes it) because one of the hardest things for me starting out was fixing stuff and getting out parts that had already been soldered in.
I was displaced last year and had time to kill so I bought one of these from Amazon. I have to say I actually like this iron better than my low end hakko/circuit specialist iron. Overall everything in it was decent at least. Well worth the 20$
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GTGGLXN/ref=syn_sd_onsite_mobileweb_429?ie=UTF8&adId=200053659497231&qualifier=1619539683&id=4569648717513589&widget=sd_onsite_mobileweb&spPl=1&psc=1&uh_it=19c9c74c7bb38fcd9de93fff47e49b68_CT
Thanks for all the suggestions so far! Great to get tips from you guys who have already been down this rabbit hole. The more I look, I'm finding there's a whole lot more to learn.
I'd hazard the guess that very very few people on these pedal forums have oscilloscopes, i started soldering stuff together in the 80's, still don't have one. Audio probe is very simple thing to make to get you started.
Did anyone mention a digital multimeter (DMM), as essential as the soldering iron.
dave
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/Circuit-Board-Clamp-Holder.html (https://www.circuitspecialists.com/Circuit-Board-Clamp-Holder.html)
I absolutely love this thing. For the price, it's well worth it!
An audio probe is nothing special. I literally make one with alligator clips and a jack, I don't even bother soldering something together anymore. You're just poking a capacitor connected to your guitar cable at a spot in the circuit you want to listen to.
These are worth having in addition to a multimeter.
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/hardware/measurement/esr-meter-transistor-tester-lcd-diode-multimeter-capacitance.html
They allow you to get transistor hfe readings, and more importantly tell you the transistor's pin out.
Seconding davent & Matmosphere: you should def have a DMM & component reader. Both made me a much smarter, more conscientious builder with a far lower failure rate.
I do have a DMM.. So far it sounds like the Audio probe and component reader are must haves.
Another question for you all...
I've been sourcing parts from Tayda, Small Bear, Mouser, and a few others..
What I've been finding is that the tolerances on many caps and resistors are +-5% or +-10%.
In a build that calls for a 47nf capacitor for example.. if the cap only tests at 43nf due to the tolerance variance, will that cause issues with the build?
I'm trying to be aware of those things, but also wondering if it's really not that big of a concern.
Quote from: RobW on April 27, 2021, 07:45:03 PM
I do have a DMM.. So far it sounds like the Audio probe and component reader are must haves.
Another question for you all...
I've been sourcing parts from Tayda, Small Bear, Mouser, and a few others..
What I've been finding is that the tolerances on many caps and resistors are +-5% or +-10%.
In a build that calls for a 47nf capacitor for example.. if the cap only tests at 43nf due to the tolerance variance, will that cause issues with the build?
I'm trying to be aware of those things, but also wondering if it's really not that big of a concern.
Unless you need caps for an RIAA network, i'd say no concern, resistors 1% & 5% are most common and cheap, pots 20%, electro caps typically 20%... close enough.
Anyone mention a breadboard(s)?
dave
Quote from: RobW on April 27, 2021, 07:45:03 PM
In a build that calls for a 47nf capacitor for example.. if the cap only tests at 43nf due to the tolerance variance, will that cause issues with the build?
Dave's right, but it depends on the build. In a Fuzz/OD/Distortion, you'd likely not notice a whole lot of difference if any, because they're (typically) lower part count builds and their job is pushing the front end of an amp, not modulating the signal. In a higher parts count complex build (like a delay), a single lower tolerance component would likely not be noticed, but if (for example) the majority of your components were all consistently under spec, you might notice a cumulative result, but then again, you'd likely need a 100% spec built pedal beside it to compare to to tell the difference.
I generally measure most of my components before I install them, and anything that's way out of spec gets sorted into the "use on a veroboard build for a random build" bag. I typically measure all my pots when I receive them, and mark their readings so I know if I'm building an expensive part build that I'm using as near spec as I can be.
the breadboard is also a new concept to me... I've heard them mentioned enough in various information I'm reading online, but have no knowledge of how important they are, or how easy/hard it is to set one up. Reading up on that is probably a good place to spend some time.
Thanks for the info on the tolerances as well.. I plan on getting a component reader and since I'm buying resistors and caps in bulk ( nothing crazy,, if i need 2, i'll get 20 ... plus the cost of them is minimal ), I can use ones that test with the closest value.
Everything that has been suggested is perfect, if you have the cash I recommend the pedalpcb.com breadboard setup. It takes a lot of headaches out of bread boarding and makes it really easy to get your first pedals up and running.
Quote from: RobW on April 27, 2021, 08:51:08 PM
the breadboard is also a new concept to me... I've heard them mentioned enough in various information I'm reading online, but have no knowledge of how important they are, or how easy/hard it is to set one up. Reading up on that is probably a good place to spend some time.
Thanks for the info on the tolerances as well.. I plan on getting a component reader and since I'm buying resistors and caps in bulk ( nothing crazy,, if i need 2, i'll get 20 ... plus the cost of them is minimal ), I can use ones that test with the closest value.
Breadboard is a tool for experimenting, learning, it allows you to build a circuit simply by plugging components into the breadboard, allows you to audition a circuit before committing to building, you can experiment on known circuits, what affect does changing the value of this piece, design your own circuit. Again something for down the road and you may never feel the need to head off down that path and nothing wrong with that. Easy quick way to build and audition new things.
dave
Just an FYI on the oscilloscope, even though they're pretty unnecessary for most builds I'd still recommend a cheap DSO138 kit off of Amazon or Ebay. They're not exactly laboratory-grade and won't work for everything, but they're perfectly sufficient for most stuff you'd need an oscilloscope for in the DIY pedal world (i.e. tracing audio signals and biasing BBDs for analog delays, choruses, and flangers) and for $20 you really can't go wrong; you can always upgrade down the line if you find yourself needing something more capable. Of course, you'll need some sort of signal generator to go with it, and once again you really don't need anything fancy: Amazon has an XR2206 signal generator kit for $13 that works perfectly well, and you could always brew up your own if you're feeling ambitious.
There's so many pedals I managed to troubleshoot with a multimeter that gives you a noise when you have continuity, an audio probe and a delay pedal that can also loop a riff, so you can trace your signal through the circuit.
A big thank-you for contributors here, from a noob.
My $.02:
-Tayda has the 'older' ESR tester. The ESR component tester is an open source project, community supported. Latest update is March 2021. Here is the ESR documentation: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/AVR_Transistortester#Downloads_.28English.29
Most Chinese built ESRs offered do not give documentation.
Amazon tends to cycle product faster, may have a newer update with case, and save you a few bucks.
Caveat Emptor.
-There is a oscilloscope on Amazon for <$20, fully soldered. Noisy and has issues.
-There is an AWESOME diy digital open source oscilliscope for $850 (scopefun).
Don't forget at first to learn the mean skill which is good soldering! It's crucial for success with anything. All means as a good iron, rosin, tin and clearing needles and brushes for PCB... Work with rosin laqueer for PCB protect, and finally PCB creating - projecting, scribing, etching, drilling and population. Be independent with those skills. This you can start to practice even today.
And, looking at web for technical datas of details. To know, what and why those things do what they do :@)
Thanks for the suggestion on the breadboard, and also all of the other suggestions so far. One of the challenging parts of this for me so far has been what to pick. There are so many choices when you start searching the web... anything from pcb's to buy or all of the components and tools you need... it's good to get some good suggestions on places to use as sources for material.
In terms of components, here are my go-tos:
+ Love My Switches: Pots, jacks, toggle and stomp switches, power stuff, enclosures, some knobs
+ Tayda Electronics: "Pantry" components (resistors, caps for personal builds, silicon diodes, common transistors and ICs), cheap pre-drilled or UV printed enclosures, 79xx-style power regulators, knurled pots for personal builds, stripboard
+ Small Bear Electronics: Germanium parts, pots that LMS doesn't have, tantalum/silver mica caps, certain ICs (e.g. PT2399s, BBDs), JFETs and BJTs, knobs, some rotary switches
+ Digi-Key or Mouser: Critical/"high-end" components (Wima, Panasonic, and Nichicon caps; Vishay resistors; non-polar electrolytic caps; fancy ICs), JFETs and BJTs, small transformers, inductors, IC voltage inverters/charge pumps (e.g. 7660, 1044, 1054), some rotary switches
+GuitarPCB or PedalPCB, which (I believe) offers SMD JFETs on a conversion board: Obsolete JFETs, some rotary switches
+ Ask around/check eBay: Everything else (e.g. hard-to-find GE diodes/transistors, ICs, BBDs, optocouplers, etc.)
Great PCBs can be found all over the place: Fuzzdog, PedalPCB, Aion, and GuitarPCB all come to mind, as does the rogue's gallery linked at the top of the forum. Search for "[pedal name] PCB" on Google and you'll usually find something reasonable.
Pro tip: Bulk Russian germanium transistors can be great replacements for now-unobtainium usual suspects like the 2N404, AC125, AC128. Just make sure to match the hFe of the project and make sure polarity is the same (i.e. replace a PNP with a PNP, not an NPN).
Enjoy!
Quote from: Muadzin on April 28, 2021, 01:29:35 PM
There's so many pedals I managed to troubleshoot with a multimeter that gives you a noise when you have continuity, an audio probe and a delay pedal that can also loop a riff, so you can trace your signal through the circuit.
This! Definitely make sure your DMM has a continuity setting.