madbeanpedals::forum

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/01/tom-petty-died-from-an-accidental-fentanyl-overdose-family/

His hip hurt, dude

oxy & fentanyl to the rescue

It is sad and very unfortunate.

I'm no medical expert, but I'd really like to know the thought process behind prescribing Fentanyl to a former Heroin addict.  I'm also curious if Petty was following the recommended dosage or if he went off script.

This news crushes and disappoints.


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Yes it's incredibly sad, and I also wonder about prescribing Fentanyl to heroin addicts... make no sense to me.
And come on, Fentanyl has been killing for more than a decade now! I remember first reading about it about Domino Harvey's death.
So many drug policies make no sense to me. In my country (France), it's only recently that they stopped selling codeine over the counter.

Sad and frustrating indeed.

Also what Prince OD'd on.

Yes, Boba, Iknow how you feel, Im from Spain and meds here are prescribed in a way that I dont understand... or I dont want to think that pharm industry rules doctor's prescriptions. A girl I know was prescribed a med for intense back pain, she was recovering for a month after surgery and one day she told us that while driving she had a thought of she driving out of the road in a mountains place, commiting suicide, and that she had these thoughts lately, she didnt know what was happening to her. you know what? She stopped with last med and these thoughts dissapeared. Lyrica is the name of that. So you have to read what doctors ordered, problema is that if you read all that papers, you are going back to heal  with a chaman- or something like that.

This kills me. All I can find on Dolores O'Riordan is that she had back issues recently. Wonder what happened. I know not all "believe in" or agree with methadone, but I have been a counselor at a clinic for nearly 6 years and seeing music heroes fall to it as well as normal schmoes like me who seem like genuinely nice/good folks, it just sucks.

I was at a conference in October '16 and, although it something that anyone could have already realized, hearing someone say, "...had Prince's handlers had Narcan, he may be alive right now" was a punch to the gut.

I wish I had all the answers or a magic wand, but sadly I'm like a lot of others and have more questions than answers.

He misused narcotics to stop pain from his fractured hip which turned into a complete break while he finished his tour of 54 dates. He was using the patches which you stick on yourself.  When used properly they are as safe as shooting up H. That is to say they are dangerous and more addictive. They probably gave him pills as well They are used for pain management. This really points out the deadly nature of the current medical epidemic that is killing 150? people a day which is outrageous. I recently completed a personal journey where I was living with a dude that was coming down from being addicted to pain pills and Fentonayl. He was really messed up and it caused brain damage. Totally unacceptable outside of being hospitalized. I don't have an alternative to the issue but something has to be done. Losing Tom was a big deal to me. I hope this will spur some kind of action. If anyone knows of something to get involved in other than just posting online I would love to know.     

I just dont get it.

I have had all kinds of dental surgies/issues (impacted wisdom teeth, infected root canals, etc.) and I have herniated discs in my lower back that has had me on crutches and bedridden from time to time. ....and I have never had any of my doctors or dentists prescribe me anything other than muscle relaxers and hydrocodone.

It amazes me to see all these people out there getting prescribed oxy, fentanyl, etc.

It's not just the rich and famous either.

I need to find me new doctors, Dammit!

:P

Quote from: peAk on January 24, 2018, 12:04:24 AM
I just dont get it.

I have had all kinds of dental surgies/issues (impacted wisdom teeth, infected root canals, etc.) and I have herniated discs in my lower back that has had me on crutches and bedridden from time to time. ....and I have never had any of my doctors or dentists prescribe me anything other than muscle relaxers and hydrocodone.

It amazes me to see all these people out there getting prescribed oxy, fentanyl, etc.

It's not just the rich and famous either.

I need to find me new doctors, Dammit!

:P

No, you don't. The world needs more doctors like yours.

 Copy that Matmo.

No, you don't. The world needs more doctors like yours.
[/quote]

Never even considered the truth in your statement.  I have docs that give you Motrin for pain.

A real loss to the music world.  Petty was a fresh voice when he first arrived with the Heartbreakers.
His music was always thoughtful and interesting.

( and I'm very jealous that he got to work with George Harrison )

I have a doctor friend who has done admissions for a health clinic that serves a variety of people, including chronically ill, some with addiction problems, etc. She says that quite a few patients report chronic pain problems and are really, really insistent about needing meds. She's a hardass and won't prescribe serious painkillers for nearly any of them. But not every doctor is as capable of telling people no when they are claiming to be in severe pain. I'm sure most doctors can recognize  junkies, but it sounds like these addictions present themselves more insidiously. My friend is not optimistic about the future of many of these people. - And it's very distressing what happened to Prince and Tom Petty. Should have been avoidable.

Here in AZ we have started giving our Livestock inspection officers narcan to carry in their cars. Its becoming such a problem out in the rural communities that half the time it is the cow cops who are the only folks who can make it to them in time.

Hell, we have billboards up on the Freeway saying "Carry naloxone". What the hell man.

I don't think it is quite clear that Fentanyl was the cause per se. I mean this is what they found in his system

The medical examiner's news release said the autopsy found these drugs in Petty's system: fentanyl, oxycodone, acetyl fentanyl and despropionyl fentanyl, which are opioids; temazepam and alprazolam, which are sedatives; and citalopram, an antidepressant.

Of note: Acetyl fentanyl has not been approved for medical use in the United States and there are no published studies on safety for human use. It is classified as a schedule I drug[/b].

I guess we will never know his intentions but he was way too smart of a guy to know that all those drugs would likely kill him and soon. Not sure where one gets Acetyl Fentanyl exactly. Doesn't appear you get a script for it. I can't imagine the drag on his heart trying to pump with that mix of drugs.

I guess he just could never completely kick his demons.

Quote from: TNblueshawk on January 26, 2018, 07:33:50 PM
I don't think it is quite clear that Fentanyl was the cause per se. I mean this is what they found in his system

The medical examiner's news release said the autopsy found these drugs in Petty's system: fentanyl, oxycodone, acetyl fentanyl and despropionyl fentanyl, which are opioids; temazepam and alprazolam, which are sedatives; and citalopram, an antidepressant.

Of note: Acetyl fentanyl has not been approved for medical use in the United States and there are no published studies on safety for human use. It is classified as a schedule I drug[/b].

I guess we will never know his intentions but he was way too smart of a guy to know that all those drugs would likely kill him and soon. Not sure where one gets Acetyl Fentanyl exactly. Doesn't appear you get a script for it. I can't imagine the drag on his heart trying to pump with that mix of drugs.

I guess he just could never completely kick his demons.

Addiction is a nasty Demon. It's like a subconscious desire for the ultimate peace of death which fights against and overcomes the desire and instinctual struggle to live.  It's truly a form of insanity that knows no boundaries and has no personal preference. 

It is said that approximately one in twelve people struggle with alcohol addiction. That does not include the myriad of other addictions. So somebody reading this might find themselves in a similar situation as Tom did. To them I would say that there is a path out of the insanity, even if you can't see it.  You have to take the first step. PM me if you want.

He probably got it from his doctor. Not having  FDA approval isn't a barrier. It just means it's not been tested. They give pregnant women a drug called pitocin to induce labor all the time, but it's not FDA approved for that purpose.

I think my doc has used the words "suck it up and take motrin" a few times.  Probably in my best interest, he's a brilliant man.

And blearyeyes I love reading your posts for your penchant to absolutely murder the english language in print.  And I mean that with the utmost respect :-)  I think you're banging out the keyboard at a rate where it becomes phonetic.  I love it.

Quote from: gordo on January 27, 2018, 02:55:25 AM
I think my doc has used the words "suck it up and take motrin" a few times.  Probably in my best interest, he's a brilliant man.

And blearyeyes I love reading your posts for your penchant to absolutely murder the english language in print.  And I mean that with the utmost respect :-)  I think you're banging out the keyboard at a rate where it becomes phonetic.  I love it.

Yea, not thinking much about spelling and grammar. Plus I had just gotten out of bed. Takes me about three hours to wake up these days.

Quote from: gordo on January 27, 2018, 02:55:25 AM
I think my doc has used the words "suck it up and take motrin" a few times.  Probably in my best interest, he's a brilliant man.

And blearyeyes I love reading your posts for your penchant to absolutely murder the english language in print.  And I mean that with the utmost respect :-)  I think you're banging out the keyboard at a rate where it becomes phonetic.  I love it.

There... I rewrote it in English.  8-))

Quote from: blearyeyes on January 26, 2018, 10:27:32 PM

Quote from: TNblueshawk on January 26, 2018, 07:33:50 PM
I don't think it is quite clear that Fentanyl was the cause per se. I mean this is what they found in his system

The medical examiner's news release said the autopsy found these drugs in Petty's system: fentanyl, oxycodone, acetyl fentanyl and despropionyl fentanyl, which are opioids; temazepam and alprazolam, which are sedatives; and citalopram, an antidepressant.

Of note: Acetyl fentanyl has not been approved for medical use in the United States and there are no published studies on safety for human use. It is classified as a schedule I drug[/b].

I guess we will never know his intentions but he was way too smart of a guy to know that all those drugs would likely kill him and soon. Not sure where one gets Acetyl Fentanyl exactly. Doesn't appear you get a script for it. I can't imagine the drag on his heart trying to pump with that mix of drugs.

I guess he just could never completely kick his demons.

Addiction is a nasty Demon. It's like a subconscious desire for the ultimate peace of death which fights against and overcomes the desire and instinctual struggle to live.  It's truly a form of insanity that knows no boundaries and has no personal preference. 

It is said that approximately one in twelve people struggle with alcohol addiction. That does not include the myriad of other addictions. So somebody reading this might find themselves in a similar situation as Tom did. To them I would say that there is a path out of the insanity, even if you can't see it.  You have to take the first step. PM me if you want.

Agree totally with you Bleary. The question I always have and really can't be answered is why some can kick it and many, most?, can't. What  is the difference in the human brain of the one that can versus one that can't. Perplexing. Unanswerable I suppose. In 2013 I had to kick Tramadol. Doesn't sound like much on the surface but I can assure you the first 72 hours sucked beyond words and the next few weeks were a total drag. It took at least 6 months before I felt like the physical symptoms were behind me. The mental ones left quickly in my case as I frankly didn't want to be in those shoes again.

So in my case I just said fuck it. I know where this could go if I kept going. Tapered down and then bit the bullet. The very thought of ever taking a pain pill again is off the table. I don't crave it and to be honest if I ever need surgery for one of my many torn ligaments I plan to not take anything, zero. Man, that will suck the first 2-4 days too.

So back to my question. Why could I do it and others can't? Dunno to be honest. Just said fuck it and done. Admittedly, I think the key in my case is I didn't let it escalate to some version of a full blown non functional addiction so the real decision was at that point I believe. In other words, I was still capable of beating it because the degree to which I relied on the opioid was withing my control still. So I'm actually unqualified to comment further on those that got the addiction needle to 10. Not judging by the way. Just spit balling as I've asked myself many times why, knowing full well I have no idea of the hell they have created.

Our best friends son will probably die this year as a heroin (insert drug here____) addict. The best guess is he has reached the end of his escapades. I've gotten updates weekly for years and the things he has done is right out of a textbook of addicts. You name it, he's done it to family, friends and himself. I've sort of had a front row seat on this one. As such, I've had many a discussion, hundreds if you will, with his step mom. Can't talk to the dad, my best friend, as it crushes him.

I have many other issues but this wasn't going to be one of them  :P

Quote from: TNblueshawk on January 29, 2018, 01:33:46 PM

Quote from: blearyeyes on January 26, 2018, 10:27:32 PM

Quote from: TNblueshawk on January 26, 2018, 07:33:50 PM
I don't think it is quite clear that Fentanyl was the cause per se. I mean this is what they found in his system

The medical examiner's news release said the autopsy found these drugs in Petty's system: fentanyl, oxycodone, acetyl fentanyl and despropionyl fentanyl, which are opioids; temazepam and alprazolam, which are sedatives; and citalopram, an antidepressant.

Of note: Acetyl fentanyl has not been approved for medical use in the United States and there are no published studies on safety for human use. It is classified as a schedule I drug[/b].

I guess we will never know his intentions but he was way too smart of a guy to know that all those drugs would likely kill him and soon. Not sure where one gets Acetyl Fentanyl exactly. Doesn't appear you get a script for it. I can't imagine the drag on his heart trying to pump with that mix of drugs.

I guess he just could never completely kick his demons.

Addiction is a nasty Demon. It’s like a subconscious desire for the ultimate peace of death which fights against and overcomes the desire and instinctual struggle to live.  It’s truly a form of insanity that knows no boundaries and has no personal preference. 

It is said that approximately one in twelve people struggle with alcohol addiction. That does not include the myriad of other addictions. So somebody reading this might find themselves in a similar situation as Tom did. To them I would say that there is a path out of the insanity, even if you can't see it.  You have to take the first step. PM me if you want.

Agree totally with you Bleary. The question I always have and really can't be answered is why some can kick it and many, most?, can't. What  is the difference in the human brain of the one that can versus one that can't. Perplexing. Unanswerable I suppose. In 2013 I had to kick Tramadol. Doesn't sound like much on the surface but I can assure you the first 72 hours sucked beyond words and the next few weeks were a total drag. It took at least 6 months before I felt like the physical symptoms were behind me. The mental ones left quickly in my case as I frankly didn't want to be in those shoes again.

So in my case I just said fuck it. I know where this could go if I kept going. Tapered down and then bit the bullet. The very thought of ever taking a pain pill again is off the table. I don't crave it and to be honest if I ever need surgery for one of my many torn ligaments I plan to not take anything, zero. Man, that will suck the first 2-4 days too.

So back to my question. Why could I do it and others can't? Dunno to be honest. Just said fuck it and done. Admittedly, I think the key in my case is I didn't let it escalate to some version of a full blown non functional addiction so the real decision was at that point I believe. In other words, I was still capable of beating it because the degree to which I relied on the opioid was withing my control still. So I'm actually unqualified to comment further on those that got the addiction needle to 10. Not judging by the way. Just spit balling as I've asked myself many times why, knowing full well I have no idea of the hell they have created.

Our best friends son will probably die this year as a heroin (insert drug here____) addict. The best guess is he has reached the end of his escapades. I've gotten updates weekly for years and the things he has done is right out of a textbook of addicts. You name it, he's done it to family, friends and himself. I've sort of had a front row seat on this one. As such, I've had many a discussion, hundreds if you will, with his step mom. Can't talk to the dad, my best friend, as it crushes him.

I have many other issues but this wasn't going to be one of them 

Yes addiction is a baffling thing.  I took Tramadol when I had 3rd degree burns and it was the worst comedown and only after a few months.  I have met guys that cannot stop taking opioids but don’t have a problem with booze and some cannot stop drinking but don't have an issue with opioids and benzos.  Go figure.  You would think addiction is addiction but I suppose chemical dependency would be a better term. Since we all have differing chemical makeup it would follow that different chemicals could ensnare us.

I guess the answer is somewhere in the brain although I think there is a spiritual component as well.  Seems to be a mixture of brain, body chemistry and spiritual lack or brokenness, while DNA is passing down the propensity to fall into it..  I can say that I would be dead now If I hadn't done something about it.  It is difficult to come to the realization that you have no power over a substance and it is making your life miserable and unmanageable.  You take the chemical to not feel the misery and yet the chemical makes you miserable after a while. The old snake with it's tail in it's mouth. You try to overcome it in your own power but you cannot. You have to humble yourself and accept defeat before you can pull a Phoenix maneuver and start to recover. I would love to do something to help others.   

Your friend needs to get his son into rehab asap. But I've seen people that go in and you know they are just going to use again.  Something in thier thought process that you can feel. 

People that think addicts can just stop doing what they are doing need to see it from the inside out. Empathy helps, not enableing.

Oh and MotrIn/Ibuprofen can work wonders for pain.

Quote from: gordo on January 27, 2018, 02:55:25 AM
I think my doc has used the words "suck it up and take motrin" a few times.  Probably in my best interest, he's a brilliant man.

Oh, how I miss Army medicine.

"Sucks about your knee injury we should operate on but never will. Here's some 800mg Motrin. Drink water, change your socks."

It's either that or they turn the pharmacy into candy land.

Your moniker "frag magnet" says a lot .   I ended up in the emergency room, they gave me morphine, it still hurt but I didn't care anymore.

Quote from: blearyeyes on January 30, 2018, 09:36:40 PM
Your moniker "frag magnet" says a lot .   I ended up in the emergency room, they gave me morphine, it still hurt but I didn't care anymore.

I can't recall the exact story but Frag earned that nickname.

What's up Frag? Been awhile. I still lurk a bit at BYOC.

I figured.


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Quote from: TNblueshawk on January 31, 2018, 09:13:53 PM

Quote from: blearyeyes on January 30, 2018, 09:36:40 PM
Your moniker "frag magnet" says a lot .   I ended up in the emergency room, they gave me morphine, it still hurt but I didn't care anymore.

I can't recall the exact story but Frag earned that nickname.

What's up Frag? Been awhile. I still lurk a bit at BYOC.

I can't really say I earned it but my resume does have some similarities to Thorpy's and I like the phrase.

Anyway, not a lot going on with me. Doing my first real semester of college... have managed to not strangle nor yell at any kids yet. I too still (mostly) lurk at BYOC.

Very interesting read, thank you everyone.

I too believe that there really is something spiritual going on (or not going on) with addiction.
I've used opiates for about 5 years, and have struggled with alcohol and other substances for many years more. I stopped everything, but for me, the real turning point was not getting past the physical or mental withdrawal (both horrible), it was healing spiritually, and learning acceptance (and in my case, going down to the Amazon jungle to have Ayahuasca ceremonies was THE turning point, a major change in my life)

I just read this morning about this documentary: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/jan/31/it-needs-to-make-you-uncomfortable-the-opioid-documentary-set-to-shock-america
Thought it might be relevant.

Thanks for sharing everyone. :)