Ok, amp techs and aficionados... I'm considering buying this JCM 800 clone. Let me know if you see any red flags on this. It has a clean bill of health from reputable music shop. How much would you pay for it?
The turretboard looks very well done. The wiring isn't as neat as it could be. Normally, lead dressing on these things looks much more deliberate. Builder have very particular paths to run the wires in order to avoid noise. Looks like they went for a little bit of mojo with the Sozo caps. My guess is the builder has a lot of soldering skill but hasn't done many amps, or just built it for himself without worrying about potential noise.
I tried to build one of these once and wound up with a bunch of sparking between the grid resistors and the chassis. Not sure what was wrong, but that's the kind of thing I might be worried about in a DIY build of unknown provenance.
Really nice parts involved and I'm a big fan of the transformers. Cabinet dimensions look a bit off but of no significance to the sound. Do you like the way it sounds?
What sort of money are we talking here?
I haven't played it yet. They are asking $650. I haven't decided whether or not to pursue it further.
ignoring the hand-built vs manufactured argument, this is a 50 watt jcm 800 ... the ehx/sovtek mig 50 pretty much is one too ... which you can get for less than that new. just something to consider
Quote from: AntKnee on November 01, 2017, 03:42:16 AM
I haven't played it yet. They are asking $650. I haven't decided whether or not to pursue it further.
Like thesmokingman indicated: you should be able to find a JCM800 for $500 or less in my experience, with a little looking around. Then again, not all JCM800s are made alike, there's definite differences between production runs. Still, the price is probably fair, considering the work and the high quality parts used...so play it and if it sounds exceptional, you may consider buying it. But if you have any doubts, realize that no one is probably going to buy it off you for that same amount. Resale you'd be looking at $300 or $350 I gather. It sucks, but if there's no brand on it, it gets really hard to sell!
Every Sovtek Mig 50 I see has an asking price of around $600, and the JCM800s, especially the 2204, are asking over $1000. Where are you guys seeing these for such low prices? If they were that low, I wouldn't even be considering this clone.
Quote from: AntKnee on November 01, 2017, 03:31:24 PM
Every Sovtek Mig 50 I see has an asking price of around $600, and the JCM800s, especially the 2204, are asking over $1000. Where are you guys seeing these for such low prices? If they were that low, I wouldn't even be considering this clone.
There's a JCM800 on TGP right now for $900 or so. That might be worth considering.
With this one, if you get it and everything works, you'd probably want to put in some time redoing that wiring, but that is fixable as long as the parts are OK.
$650 for a JCM Clone seems high to me. The Mig 50s are really nice. If I were going the Marshall route I'd be on the hunt for a DSL50. Those were my personal favorites. But that's just me.
https://reverb.com/p/electro-harmonix-mig-50-2-channel-50-watt-tube-guitar-amp-head?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxv-Z196d1wIVSJR-Ch0KyA62EAYYASABEgIy7_D_BwE&hfid=4124731 (https://reverb.com/p/electro-harmonix-mig-50-2-channel-50-watt-tube-guitar-amp-head?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxv-Z196d1wIVSJR-Ch0KyA62EAYYASABEgIy7_D_BwE&hfid=4124731)
Is the wiring on it really that big of a deal? I've been seeing a lot of JCM800 gut shots that have similar looking wiring.
that depends ... if the amp is noisy then yeah, that wiring is a problem.
listen, I don't care to debate this issue of wire routing because some people really are into 90 degree bends and perfection and I'm not going to win them over no matter what I say. I will say that I've built similar amps with similar wiring and had no trouble and I've had little fender champs give me grief if everything wasn't perfect AND shielded. that is something the builder should have sussed out before offering it for sale and you should be able to discern on test drive.
Quote from: thesmokingman on November 01, 2017, 05:12:21 PM
that depends ... if the amp is noisy then yeah, that wiring is a problem.
listen, I don't care to debate this issue of wire routing because some people really are into 90 degree bends and perfection and I'm not going to win them over no matter what I say. I will say that I've built similar amps with similar wiring and had no trouble and I've had little fender champs give me grief if everything wasn't perfect AND shielded. that is something the builder should have sussed out before offering it for sale and you should be able to discern on test drive.
Basically, that was my point of view also. If it doesn't make noise or oscillation, I really don't care about the wiring, to an extent.
Quote from: AntKnee on November 01, 2017, 03:31:24 PM
Where are you guys seeing these for such low prices? If they were that low, I wouldn't even be considering this clone.
I *may* have been a bit too 'optimistic'. Just checked prices online (Dutch websites) and asking price is about €750 - €1000. If you catch a lucky break (which takes only patience and zealous checking of market places) you can get a steal sometimes. I've heard of deals on the second hand market you would not believe. Thing is: if you spend $850 on a Marshall JCM800 second hand, you can sell it again without any considerable loss and maybe even with a profit. Us pedal builders know that (re)sale price for a big part is in the eye of the beholder: if it says Marshall on the front, it's worth more. That may be of no concern to you, in which case this could be your dream amp and totally worth it. It's just good to think about it before hand.
As for the wiring: probably no problem at all!
Buying Marshalls sight unseen is a crap shoot. I've owned a few duds and have a great sounding one now. If it sounds great then it is. Everything Marshall after 1972 73 is on a PCB board and the lead dress isn't great either. I'd pay 500 for it if I was looking for a jcm800
I just ordered all of the parts for a 50w plexi. Im at $500 in quality parts. This is excluding a cabinet, so that price seems very fair. The wiring could be cleaned up a bit, but it looks like a solid build. People are saying they wouldn't pay that price are expecting the builder to essentially make it for free, and give a discount on parts. Make an amp for $600, sell it for less? Not happening.
Thanks for the input everyone. To steer the thread back on track, right now I'm asking for thoughts on this clone. There's already plenty of jcm800 debate and commentary on the webz for me ro read.
Quote from: Zigcat on November 01, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
I just ordered all of the parts for a 50w plexi. Im at $500 in quality parts. This is excluding a cabinet, so that price seems very fair. The wiring could be cleaned up a bit, but it looks like a solid build. People are saying they wouldn't pay that price are expecting the builder to essentially make it for free, and give a discount on parts. Make an amp for $600, sell it for less? Not happening.
Interesting. I was wondering how much it would cost if I just sourced all the parts myself. The markup on kits is kind of ridiculous. Did you find a kit, or source it all yourself?
Sourced all the parts. You can find complete kits, but they are, like you said, much more expensive. But it's a big parts list to compile. And then you have to spend hours and hours building it.
Quote from: Zigcat on November 01, 2017, 10:11:56 PM
People are saying they wouldn't pay that price are expecting the builder to essentially make it for free, and give a discount on parts. Make an amp for $600, sell it for less? Not happening.
Nobody said that actually, really no one did.
I once build an 18W kit from AmpMaker.com (great kits). That's about $400 in parts + shipping. It's housed in a combo cab by TAD, which alone is like $500. It's loaded with a Celestion Blue and Gold because...why not. So that's, in all $1300 in amp stuff, not counting any labour. I could probably resell the combo cab for $250, the speakers maybe $100 each and my loaded amp chassis is worth diddly squat. It's a 100% comparable to building up a kit guitar: worth more in parts than put together.
So is $650 reasonable for an amp head? It is more than that and could be considered cheap. But without knowing who build this thing and what his track record and street cred is, you should at least be aware of the above. Whether or not it swings your opinion is subjective and totally up to you. Could be a great amp. And if that is what you care about then that's awesome and you are mentally miles above TGP (which goes for about everybody on this board). If this amp reacts to your playing like none before, please buy it!
Ok well I also don't build amps just pedals. And he was asking for advice. Plus I haven't looked at an 800 in about 10 years. I was just putting in my 2 cents. Guess I'll stick to the pedal side of things.
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Pedals isn't too different. Many think that the cost of parts is a reasonable estimate for the cost of the completed project. It sucks but it is what it is.
On the amp -- having built only one... I would guess he's not making much on the deal to recoup labor. However, there's always a question of whether or not it is built well and correctly so I would likely avoid it. It's sad but without a good track record, I think you're stuck selling things at a loss. Shoot, I still sell pedals for barely more than it costs to make them and I've sold a few dozen by now...
seems kind of weird that the tube heater wiring isn't twisted.
Correction: it's kind of out of view against the rear panel. up for debate.
Quote from: AntKnee on November 01, 2017, 06:21:39 PM
Basically, that was my point of view also. If it doesn't make noise or oscillation, I really don't care about the wiring, to an extent.
In a tube amp, I would
always worry about the wiring. These things have the capability to kill you. I would never buy one unless I know who built it (and who my partner can sue if it kills me anyway).
Quote from: Zigcat on November 02, 2017, 12:14:52 AM
Quote from: Rockhorst on November 01, 2017, 10:53:44 PM
Nobody said that actually, really no one did.
Quote from: flanagan0718 on November 01, 2017, 03:56:09 PM
$650 for a JCM Clone seems high to me.
I'd agree with Rockhorst, and for similar reasons.
DIY amps are just a tough sell. It's one of the many reasons that I have rejected any requests to build amps for others. Until you buy parts in decent quantity, it's tough to get the parts cost down far enough to make sense for commercial builds. If I were to build a DIY JCM800, it could very well cost every bit of $650 in parts. And, as you say, that doesn't factor in labor at all. By the time I included the significant amount of time I'd put into it, it'd be totally reasonable to charge 1k+ for that amp.
The problem is that somebody can buy a real JCM800 for that. And it would have a similar resale if they chose to sell it down the road. And therein lies the rub. AntKnee is looking at a somewhat roughly wired JCM800 clone for $650. The parts are probably worth it, so it might be OK if he wants to throw some time at cleaning it up. But for a few hundred dollars more, he can get a real one that is a known entity.
Thanks for backing me up there PD ;)
@AntKnee: If you want a JCM800 specifically, hunt one down. If it's more about the sound than the brand (which your post sort of indicates) I think there's a better way to satisfy your GAS. Start looking for a Marshall Valvestate Pro 120/120. It's a very sturdy 19" power amp that can be had for $150 - $250 second hand. Now plug some pedals in there. Any distortion with LED clipping should have enough output to drive that thing. Better yet: see if someone on the forum has a Grind Customs STM-800 build or kit and put that in front of it. You'll have all the JCM tone you'll need at the fraction of the cost.
Or buy a Plexi-ish 18W kit and build one yourself. It's really not that difficult if you've got a bit of a track record building complicated pedals.
Or buy the amp from the original post ;)
Either way, let us know how it turns out.