Finally bit the bullet and got a 4-channel scope - Rigol DS1054DZ. Lots of praise for a lower-end scope.
(https://s15.postimg.org/dcl2sqv57/IMG_20161020_111930517.jpg)
Want!
Wouldn't know where to start....
But still want...
Sweet. That's a well-regarded unit. Are you going to put the hacks on it? Not that you'd need the higher speeds for pedal building.
Woo! Looks hot, congrats
Cool!
I have a rigol 2 channel, its a great scope for the price. My only issue is the menu navigation is not user intuitive :-\
Quote from: juansolo on October 20, 2016, 07:00:32 PM
Want!
Wouldn't know where to start....
But still want...
Yeah, I'd be lost too. I just picked up a little hobbyist scope from Bean and I don't even know how to use that little guy yet. This one looks like serious business.
There should be plenty of YouTube videos to show you. Once you get used to it you'll wonder how you ever made do without one.
Awesome! Looks like your building up your bench.
Cody
Quote from: selfdestroyer on October 22, 2016, 04:37:26 AM
Awesome! Looks like your building up your bench.
Cody
I can't take credit for the fresh flowers ...
Getting a bit acquainted. Having multiple channels is very nice. Managed to take a look at two different points of an LFO project I'm tinkering with. Yellow line is from the depth pot and the blue line is what's on the pin. Very nice to be able to just see the amplitude and frequency of each displayed right on the screen.
(https://s11.postimg.org/pdp34bgv7/IMG_20161021_012622164.jpg)
Quote from: EBRAddict on October 20, 2016, 07:13:21 PM
Sweet. That's a well-regarded unit. Are you going to put the hacks on it? Not that you'd need the higher speeds for pedal building.
I'm sure I will. Need to look that up. Gonna take me a while to get a handle on all the features.
Quote from: EBRAddict on October 22, 2016, 01:11:22 AM
There should be plenty of YouTube videos to show you. Once you get used to it you'll wonder how you ever made do without one.
++++1
After using one for troubleshooting anything with a LFO or clock signal, you'll curse the years you spent poking around with just a multimeter.
ya having a scope around is a huge deal, you can see and learn so much
Function generator showed up yesterday. woot. Playing with 1K sine wave and some diodes and I can see why I love the 385Bz. It's the yellow trace. The two blues are Germanium and Si.
(http://s12.postimg.org/5zvlxpxod/IMG_20161026_113034785.jpg)
(http://s21.postimg.org/sxwxwa2nr/IMG_20161026_113134753.jpg)
Nice! You're making me want to play with my scope, I almost never use it.
Can you do screenshots to USB? Having 4 channels is pretty cool
Quote from: nzCdog on October 26, 2016, 10:36:05 PM
Nice! You're making me want to play with my scope, I almost never use it.
Can you do screenshots to USB? Having 4 channels is pretty cool
It's got USB connection, but I haven't plugged it in yet.
Very nice unit. 4 channels!
Not to highjack this thread, but I also have a 2 channel scope, but don't really know how to use it as a pedal building tool.
It would be nice to have thread or "how to" on using this tool in pedal building.
Quote from: alparent on October 28, 2016, 05:32:56 PM
It would be nice to have thread or "how to" on using this tool in pedal building.
Every time this request gets posted, one of two things happens:
1) Crickets.
2) Somebody says, "Oh it's easy to explain, I'll put something together"... and then it never happens.
There seem to be a lot of guys here who know how to use o-scopes, but nobody that I've seen can or will explain the process to fellow hobbyists. Surely
someone can offer a methodology that is useful for pedal circuit applications.
There are plenty of guides out there, but none that are in the context of circuit testing for pedal effects.
I've used my scope a few times to dial in an analog delay, but it was with help from another builder and I frankly didn't totally understand why I was doing what I was doing. I have since forgotten the test procedure.
Quote from: culturejam on November 03, 2016, 12:16:50 PM
Quote from: alparent on October 28, 2016, 05:32:56 PM
It would be nice to have thread or "how to" on using this tool in pedal building.
Every time this request gets posted, one of two things happens:
1) Crickets.
2) Somebody says, "Oh it's easy to explain, I'll put something together"... and then it never happens.
There seem to be a lot of guys here who know how to use o-scopes, but nobody that I've seen can or will explain the process to fellow hobbyists. Surely someone can offer a methodology that is useful for pedal circuit applications.
There are plenty of guides out there, but none that are in the context of circuit testing for pedal effects.
I've used my scope a few times to dial in an analog delay, but it was with help from another builder and I frankly didn't totally understand why I was doing what I was doing. I have since forgotten the test procedure.
I agree. Let's get this rolling. I've actually been able to figure some stuff out about my little scope, and I was able to see my guitar signal with it. That was pretty cool. It tells me that I should be able to run a test tone into it and see how different diodes clip. That will be fun to do, but I know there's much more to usefulness in there.
I've watched some youtubes that have helped me understand some of the basics, but I agree that something that is tailored to fx building would be really cool. I remember when stomptown linked me to Jacob's Eagle tutorial series. I was already using Eagle, but it really propelled me forward to have fx specific info.
Glad to see I'm not the only one in this situation.
This is not the first time or forum I've ask for this guidance, but like Leevibe said........Crickets.
And these crickets get everywhere, they even show up in my conversations with my wife when she asks "So......how is this new oscilloscope making your pedals better?!" :-\ My answer ....... Crickets :'(
A "this is the basics for guitar pedals" video I could vaguely plan out, but my actual abilities at doing this is below zero.
I'm thinking a permanent subwindow in the top right corner showing the scope at all times, with the video-maker showing how you probe through a chorus or flanger or something, and what signals you'd roughly expect.
I think something simple would be best.
For example:
1) To view/measure LFO performance, set your scope to XYZ setting and attach a probe to ABC part of circuit.
2) To dial in an analog delay, set your scope to XYZ sensitivity, attach one probe to BBD output, and the other to a function generator set to XXX Khz.
And the like.
Just a thought, but does someone in the diy synth community have some kind of tutorial? I don't have any experience with a scope (want one!), but from what I've seen in synth projects I've been researching, I'd think it's probably the same skill set for diagnosing for both.
P.S. - I'm always jealous of people with scopes. Sure it can be used for circuit diagnosis, but who doesn't want to hoop a mic up to one and see what the waveform of a fart looks like?
I think I ear them crickets again :'(
Quote from: alparent on November 10, 2016, 07:18:40 PM
I think I ear them crickets again :'(
I've found in this hobby that a lot of knowledge was easy to get, and a lot of it I just had to figure out on my own.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51)
Here are some o'scope videos from That Crazy Aussie Bloke (but aren't all aussies at least mildly crazy? ;) )
Quote from: alanp on November 11, 2016, 03:06:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51)
Here are some o'scope videos from That Crazy Aussie Bloke (but aren't all aussies at least mildly crazy? ;) )
EEVblog is great. I have learned a lot from him. Also, he is a great resource for Chinese knock off electronics since he dismantles and reviews it.
Cody
Quote from: selfdestroyer on November 11, 2016, 07:40:52 PM
Quote from: alanp on November 11, 2016, 03:06:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51)
Here are some o'scope videos from That Crazy Aussie Bloke (but aren't all aussies at least mildly crazy? ;) )
EEVblog is great. I have learned a lot from him. Also, he is a great resource for Chinese knock off electronics since he dismantles and reviews it.
Cody
+1
And he's entertaining
Alright, lads. I got a Rigol DS1 102E for my birthday. And a function generator coming my way very soon.
Gonna get this shite sorted oot, good n' proper, like. ;D
Quote from: culturejam on December 11, 2016, 03:55:18 AM
Alright, lads. I got a Rigol DS1 102E for my birthday. And a function generator coming my way very soon.
Gonna get this shite sorted oot, good n' proper, like. ;D
Raisin ay pint aye ye mate. ;)
me am jealous of scope owners. :D
Quote from: culturejam on December 11, 2016, 03:55:18 AM
Alright, lads. I got a Rigol DS1 102E for my birthday. And a function generator coming my way very soon.
Gonna get this shite sorted oot, good n' proper, like. ;D
Shazam! It's like getting glasses fir the first time. I'm kicking myself that I didn't get one years ago. Makes me want to go back and rebuild some effects that frustrated the crap out of me.
Okay, so I can figure out how to export the wave as a WFM file, but I'm not seeing an option for an image format. Any ideas, Jason?
EDIT: I found it. Duh. Takes some time to get used to the UI.
Here's the DuoVibe's LFO when set to the least square / most triangle sweep on the Wave pot. Neat.
There are normal voltage controlled oscillators, in Eurorack, and there are also complex oscillators, with all kindsa crazy modulation.
It's fun to mess around with these and not listen to a note, but just watch the waveform change endlessly.
I want to get a scope primarily for help with car projects and diagnosing sensor & PWM signals. As it needs to be relatively portable I had a look at the DSO Nano, has anyone got any experience with these? Obviously it'll need to be suitable for pedals as well, setting up delays and checking the output of TAPLFOs for example.
This will kind of explode your brain if you haven't seen it before. You should be able to get this to display on any scope with an X/Y mode. It works best with the older CRT scopes. You can learn more about it at the Jerobeam Fenderson (http://www.jerobeamfenderson.net/tagged/oscilloscope) website.
Got a BTMB Maggie pedal today and right off noticed the LFO shape sounded wonky - bunched up and out of balance like a wobbly tire.
Turns out it's feeding a sharp sawtooth to the JFETs. Evens out to more of a triangle at higher speeds.
(https://s30.postimg.org/d6e1okk2p/IMG_20161219_143506822.jpg)
Having some fun with JFET booster stage.
BF862 JFET, 17.5v supply, 11V on the drain, 1.2V bias voltage on the gate
Going up to 3.7V p-p on the input with no distortion (13.6V p-p on the output at that voltage)
When it does distort, the corners are very soft and rather unsymmetrical -- when using a cathode bypass cap. Without that cap, it's very abrupt hard clipping. Interesting!
(https://s29.postimg.org/heplkkwx3/IMG_20170103_153302935.jpg)
With cathode bypass cap
(https://s23.postimg.org/vjr6b16q3/IMG_20170103_154318100.jpg)
No cap
(https://s27.postimg.org/6nrtb4kn7/IMG_20170103_154432533.jpg)
Cool!
I love this tread Jason!
Quote from: selfdestroyer on January 05, 2017, 12:39:18 AM
I love this tread Jason!
Having a blast. Breadboarding is a whole new experience - being able to see and measure things immediately vs. Do math, cross fingers, listen.
Working on an input stage for BBull mk2 and getting the headroom and gain I'm looking for while swapping in JFETs is so simple now - with no biasing necessary. I think most of the headaches we associate with JFET gain stages are from using through-hole parts with only a 9V supply. With 18V and SMD trannies it's no trouble making a VERY consistent gain stage with no need to measure drain voltages or adjust bias. I completely ditched the ROG Fetzer Valve method, since I could never hear the magic anyway.
Also getting a lot of new ideas from all this. Looked at the output of my modded G2 and saw that at low gain settings
, and saw it's very soft, rounded clipping. Down the road I want to try limiting the input gain and adding a third stage to see if i can get a larger gain range with that clipping signature.
Quote from: jubal81 on January 05, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
Working on an input stage for BBull mk2 and getting the headroom and gain I'm looking for while swapping in JFETs is so simple now - with no biasing necessary. I think most of the headaches we associate with JFET gain stages are from using through-hole parts with only a 9V supply.
Are the SMD JFETs more consistent than the through-hole ones? The datasheets don't seem to indicate that and as far as I know the manufacturing process is the same.
Are you just relying on the higher supply voltage to make the bias point less wiggly? The 48V stuff I've been doing still needed gate biasing, but that was to allow for really really exact stuff (particularly in microphones).
Quote from: midwayfair on January 05, 2017, 07:09:57 PM
Quote from: jubal81 on January 05, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
Working on an input stage for BBull mk2 and getting the headroom and gain I'm looking for while swapping in JFETs is so simple now - with no biasing necessary. I think most of the headaches we associate with JFET gain stages are from using through-hole parts with only a 9V supply.
Are the SMD JFETs more consistent than the through-hole ones? The datasheets don't seem to indicate that and as far as I know the manufacturing process is the same.
Are you just relying on the higher supply voltage to make the bias point less wiggly? The 48V stuff I've been doing still needed gate biasing, but that was to allow for really really exact stuff (particularly in microphones).
I have found SMD Jfets more consistent and higher gain than the through hole JFets I have used.
Quote from: midwayfair on January 05, 2017, 07:09:57 PM
Quote from: jubal81 on January 05, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
Working on an input stage for BBull mk2 and getting the headroom and gain I'm looking for while swapping in JFETs is so simple now - with no biasing necessary. I think most of the headaches we associate with JFET gain stages are from using through-hole parts with only a 9V supply.
Are the SMD JFETs more consistent than the through-hole ones? The datasheets don't seem to indicate that and as far as I know the manufacturing process is the same.
Are you just relying on the higher supply voltage to make the bias point less wiggly? The 48V stuff I've been doing still needed gate biasing, but that was to allow for really really exact stuff (particularly in microphones).
They're not perfectly matched, but they're far more consistent than the TH I've worked with. Part of that might be that the SMDs come on tape together (same manufacturing run?) and the TH I've always gotten were 'loosies.'
Should have explained more clearly about the biasing. I still use a bias voltage on the gate to maximize the headroom, but the device variances don't in any way necessitate adjusting the bias voltage to compensate. Actually, I've gotten very good results with GND bias on the gate, but it does sacrifice some headroom. This is where it's sweet having the scope - I can turn up the input signal until i see clipping, then adjust the gate voltage until it smooths out.
What I really liked to see was swapping out different JFETs of the same model and getting VERY consistent output and headroom.
I also experimented with parallel JFETs with good results. each one got its own source resistor, with the gates and drains tied. Saw appreciable boost in gain and supposedly it reduces noise by 3db each time you double the amount of JFETs, though I didn't test for noise. Interesting to me because I want to avoid using bypass caps on the source because I do notice the added white noise when they're present.
Awesome stuff!
Thanks so much for sharing. :)
I'm gonna hafta fire up my ancient vacuum tube Telequipment CRO and do some testing....
'course its not dual trace and the accuracy is questionable.... but it's what I got....