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Projects => Tech Help - Projects Page => Topic started by: rmfroyd on February 22, 2016, 12:53:54 PM

Title: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: rmfroyd on February 22, 2016, 12:53:54 PM
I have been trying to troubleshoot a 2015 Collosalus board that isn't working.  I am going to get in depth with the troubleshooting tonight, but I had a quick question for you people.

Has anyone run into a 1N5817 that is literally burning hot to the touch?  I was going through the build and actually touched it this morning, and about burned my dang finger.

It is D3, on the build document.  I am doing the 18volt mod.  Could it be a bad Diode, or something before, and or after that Diode in the circuit?

Thanks for all your help in advance.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 22, 2016, 01:43:35 PM
Have you seen this post?

http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=21849.msg203582;boardseen#new
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 22, 2016, 02:01:07 PM
No, I didn't!  Well, that will probably make things much easier. 

I have been searching Google for the last three days, and this never came up.

Should have searched the forum, that was dumb on my part.

Thanks a ton!
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 22, 2016, 02:05:31 PM
Hopefully the build document can be updated.  That would have saved me a ton of frustration this weekend.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 22, 2016, 05:43:27 PM
Also, there is still an error in the voltages. IC6 Pin 5 should be the same as Pin 2. On the document... Pin 5 is listed as 0 but it should be around 7.5V just like Pin 2.

Good luck  ;D
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 22, 2016, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on February 22, 2016, 05:43:27 PM
Also, there is still an error in the voltages. IC6 Pin 5 should be the same as Pin 2. On the document... Pin 5 is listed as 0 but it should be around 7.5V just like Pin 2.

Good luck  ;D

The google machine actually found that post for me that you had made previously, but thanks again.  I was reading the schematic(as best as my abilities allow) and I thought that the 0v was a little curious.

Also, on the drilling template, the holes for the pots could be moved south.  As it is the out-jack hits the feedback trimmer and the plug can't latch.  I can measure when I get home, but I wanna say it was right around .200 south, or so that the board is ALMOST hitting the 3pdt.

Thanks again for the info, I almost went home on my lunch break to try it out.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 23, 2016, 02:37:39 AM
No Luck tonight. 

I have some messed up voltages on IC4.1-3

It's supposed to be
1-7.06
2-7.06
3-6.99

I am getting:
1-2.195
2-2.195
3-2.179

Checked my values and me soldering and everything checks out.  There must be something I am missing but I can't figure out what it is.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 23, 2016, 01:54:15 PM
Check your R26, R27, and R47 values again.

Pictures of the PCB... detailed as possible would help as well.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 23, 2016, 02:02:10 PM
R26, R27, and R47 checked out last night.  I am wondering if I have a bad 4558?

I will try pop a new one in there tonight and see.  If not, I will take pics and post them.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 23, 2016, 11:53:49 PM
Replaced the 4558.  Here are some pics as promised:

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/078509d946b3410e897a6e39f105b2c5.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/e0bfff8df28491b644b056817068be02.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/ff8c96a0fe3681d8b6cd4347294f3460.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160223/21acb497ac7cf08b502368c31cea0626.jpg)


Thanks for your help.  Gonna go cry myself to sleep now.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 25, 2016, 01:48:15 AM
After doing some searching, has anyone actually verified that the 18v mod actually works?
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Orbis_Ignis on February 25, 2016, 05:07:17 AM
Mine works great at 18 volts once I got rid of the zenner diode. Oh, and a bad mn3007 (not sure if it was already bad or the result of something in did).

It's a great sounding flanger
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 25, 2016, 11:36:29 AM
Quote from: Orbis_Ignis on February 25, 2016, 05:07:17 AM
Mine works great at 18 volts once I got rid of the zenner diode. Oh, and a bad mn3007 (not sure if it was already bad or the result of something in did).

It's a great sounding flanger
Excellent, thanks! Do you have any pics of your board? 

I didn't get a chance to do much troubleshooting on this one last night, I was too busy having my mind blown by a just completed Moodring build.  What a great pedal.  If I can get this one to sound half as good as that one...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 25, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
Are all of your other voltages on par with the build document? Other than U4.... Pins 1, 2, and 3?
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 25, 2016, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on February 25, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
Are all of your other voltages on par with the build document? Other than U4.... Pins 1, 2, and 3?

I need to remeasure.   Yesterday I popped off all of the IC's and blasted the PCB with a high pressure air-hose.  After re-assembly my voltages on IC4 went from the 2.1s up to where they were supposed to be per the build document.  I didn't measure everything else after that.  Hopefully tonight.

The only other wonky voltages from the other night were:

IC9
pin 3 measured at 12.48 which is double what it should be.
Pin 7 and 8 measuered at 9.2, which is also double what it should be.


Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on February 25, 2016, 03:46:40 PM
Quote from: rmfroyd on February 25, 2016, 02:10:25 PM
IC9
pin 3 measured at 12.48 which is double what it should be.
Pin 7 and 8 measuered at 9.2, which is also double what it should be.

This is most likely because the BIAS is not properly adjusted. Make sure R32 and R35 are correct values and that you used a 20K trimmer for the BIAS. If you get the value on Pin 3 close to the build doc value then Pins 7&8 "should" fall into line.

Also, since you are seeing better voltages on your IC4 then you "should" be getting a good LFO.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 25, 2016, 04:55:15 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on February 25, 2016, 03:46:40 PM
This is most likely because the BIAS is not properly adjusted. Make sure R32 and R35 are correct values and that you used a 20K trimmer for the BIAS. If you get the value on Pin 3 close to the build doc value then Pins 7&8 "should" fall into line.

Also, since you are seeing better voltages on your IC4 then you "should" be getting a good LFO.

Excellent info.  I will look into this tonight.  Thanks
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 26, 2016, 01:43:37 AM
Adjusted Bias tonight.  ALL voltages check out, almost the exact same as build document.  So obviously there was a bit of solder/wire clipping causing my wacky voltages in IC4.  So that is fixed.

BUTTTT.....

Still no sound.  Works fine in bypass.  Led lights as it should.  Just. No. Sound.  I have built probably 25 pedals, and this one is completely dumbfounding me.  I was pretty proud of the fact that I have never started a box a of shame....but it might be time.  So sad.

If any of you have a 2 outs, 2 strikes, tie-game in the bottom of the ninth, Home-Run in you, I would sure like to hear it.

Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: lincolnic on February 26, 2016, 05:09:55 AM
Quote from: rmfroyd on February 26, 2016, 01:43:37 AM
Adjusted Bias tonight.  ALL voltages check out, almost the exact same as build document.  So obviously there was a bit of solder/wire clipping causing my wacky voltages in IC4.  So that is fixed.

BUTTTT.....

Still no sound.  Works fine in bypass.  Led lights as it should.  Just. No. Sound.  I have built probably 25 pedals, and this one is completely dumbfounding me.  I was pretty proud of the fact that I have never started a box a of shame....but it might be time.  So sad.

If any of you have a 2 outs, 2 strikes, tie-game in the bottom of the ninth, Home-Run in you, I would sure like to hear it.

Here's a question that I haven't seen addressed anywhere yet. Does it work on your test rig? All of your posts so far make it seem like you've boxed it up already. Maybe there's a wiring problem.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Jebus on February 26, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
Sounds to me that this would be a good time to get your audio probe out and see where the signal gets cut off. :)
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 26, 2016, 12:55:06 PM
Quote from: lincolnic on February 26, 2016, 05:09:55 AM

Here's a question that I haven't seen addressed anywhere yet. Does it work on your test rig? All of your posts so far make it seem like you've boxed it up already. Maybe there's a wiring problem.

No, unfortunately it doesn't.  They only time I boxed it was to check that everything would fit per drilling template.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 26, 2016, 12:59:16 PM
Quote from: Jebus on February 26, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
Sounds to me that this would be a good time to get your audio probe out and see where the signal gets cut off. :)

Sounds to me like I better get off my butt and build an audio probe!

It feels like I have learned more by doing this one pedal than I did with the previous 25 combined.....
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Orbis_Ignis on February 26, 2016, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: rmfroyd on February 25, 2016, 11:36:29 AM
Quote from: Orbis_Ignis on February 25, 2016, 05:07:17 AM
Mine works great at 18 volts once I got rid of the zenner diode. Oh, and a bad mn3007 (not sure if it was already bad or the result of something in did).

It's a great sounding flanger
Excellent, thanks! Do you have any pics of your board? 

I didn't get a chance to do much troubleshooting on this one last night, I was too busy having my mind blown by a just completed Moodring build.  What a great pedal.  If I can get this one to sound half as good as that one...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Here it is before I clipped the diode and shortened the legs of c22.
(http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx317/d14m23/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/52CFA84A-1760-40DF-99D2-76951676B742_zps7nux4vdx.jpg) (http://s767.photobucket.com/user/d14m23/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/52CFA84A-1760-40DF-99D2-76951676B742_zps7nux4vdx.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on February 28, 2016, 08:49:00 PM
Gave up and ordered another board. 

Made the audio probe, and traced the circuit,  thought I pinpointed the problem, then everything was fine, then it wasn't, blah, blah.

I think I have a short somewhere, possibly a chip under the sockets for the IC's.  I had to do a lot of grinding to try and get it to fit right in the enclosure, and I bet some chips worked their way where they shouldn't have.

Either way, I admit defeat.  My first failed pedal, I feel bad about myself.

The moodring turned out good though!!

(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12801592_10154000593029185_3002090995649563159_n.jpg?oh=969e41b9e12cac3e206067adb3125e7c&oe=57513A8B)
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12800384_10154000593154185_1658203092428935613_n.jpg?oh=b1d1f821db2d42ff5b80972bf42b49be&oe=5768A26C)
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: dewees on February 29, 2016, 10:41:16 PM
in your latest picture, it doesn't look like you omitted D4, D6, C20 and C21. I left these things off and can confirm my 18V version is working.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Orbis_Ignis on March 01, 2016, 03:48:20 AM
Quote from: dewees on February 29, 2016, 10:41:16 PM
in your latest picture, it doesn't look like you omitted D4, D6, C20 and C21. I left these things off and can confirm my 18V version is working.

You're talking about my pic not his. I'm the one that made Madbean realize the build doc didn't contain that bit of info. I did clip the zener diode and mine works great. That pic was before I clipped the diodes and shortened the legs on c22. Other than that everything else is the same. Well, except for the bad mn3007 that had to be changed (which was supposedly hand tested, lol. Maybe I killed it somehow. Who knows)
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on March 06, 2016, 06:57:51 PM
Alright, I am back.

Ordered a new board and populated it yesterday.  This one sound comes through at least, but no Flange.  I suspect the my IC6 (CD4013) may be bad, but I am not sure how to determine that(I have a new one on order).  So, how does one determine if it is bad?

The reason I 'think' it is bad is that there is no voltage measure at Pin one, which according to the Build Doc should measure 7.38 volts coming out of it. 

Thanks for your help again.
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: Orbis_Ignis on March 07, 2016, 04:13:47 PM
When mine passed signal but with no flange effect, it ended up being a bad mn3007(which was supposedly hand tested, lol)
Title: Re: Collosalus
Post by: rmfroyd on March 07, 2016, 04:20:38 PM
That may be what it is.  I hate waiting for parts....


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Collosalus PLEASE HELP ME
Post by: rmfroyd on March 11, 2016, 02:17:47 AM
I am about ready to quit.  New board works, but no flange.  I have gone through 4 each of the MN3007(2 from small bear, 2 from parts puller in Miami), tried 6 cd4049s, 5 cd4013s.  I can't fucking win.

I mulimetered every resistor I put in, checked ever cap.

Voltages are all fucked up.

Ic1-4 are spot on, then it gets ugly.

IC5
1-14.81
2-14.77
3-0.0
4-0.0
5-14.6
6-0.0
7-13.8
8-0.0
9-0.0
10-14.7
11-0.0
12-14.8
13-mv
14-0.0
15-14.7
16-mv

ic6
1-14.6
2-13.8
3-14.6
10-14.2
12-14.7

ic9
2-14.8
6-14.8
7-14.12
8-14.12

Please for the love of Cindy Crawford tell me how to fix this.

Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 11, 2016, 02:57:58 PM
Can you provide ALL pin readings for IC6 (4013)?
Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: rmfroyd on March 11, 2016, 03:17:13 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on March 11, 2016, 02:57:58 PM
Can you provide ALL pin readings for IC6 (4013)?

I can do that tonight, but the rest were in line with the voltages on the build document.

Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: rmfroyd on March 11, 2016, 04:01:32 PM
Okay, let me know if I am reading this right for IC9

MN3007 Pinout

(http://tonebuster.org/images/effects/f_ch10/mn3007_pinout.png)

My voltages are as follows
1--14.81
2--14.81(should be 7.37)
3--6.12
4--1.54
5--0
6--14.8(should be 7.37)
7--14.12(should be 4.7-5.67)
8--14.12(should be 4.7-5.67)

According to the pinout
1 is Ground
2 is CP1(clock pulse 1)
3 is IN
4 No idea what Vgg is
5 is Positive Supply Voltage
6 is CP2(Clock Pulse 2)
7 is Out1
8 is Out2

1 is fine
2 is double what it should be So I am getting something bad out of IC5 pin 12.
3 is fine
4 is fine
5 is fine
6 is double what it should be so I am getting something bad out of IC5 pin 2 and pin 15.
7 is double
8 is double

So can I then conclude that my bad voltage coming in from Pin 2 and Pin 6 is causing my bad voltage out on Pin 7 and Pin 8?

And if this is correct, I can then find a pin-out for a CD4049 and start looking at that one, right?

Or am I going about this all wrong?



Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: rmfroyd on March 11, 2016, 04:35:24 PM
So, moving on to IC5

(http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/CD4049.gif)

Pin 1 is fine
Pin 2 is OUTPUTTING incorrect voltage
Pin 3 is Getting no voltage
Pin 4 is OUTPUTTING no voltage
Pin 5 Is GETTING Double voltage
Pin 6 is OUTPUTTING no voltage
Pin 7 Is GETTING almost double voltage
Pin 9 is GETTING no voltage
Pin 10 is OUTPUTTING Double voltage
Pin 11 is GETTING no voltage
Pin 12 is Outputting double voltage
Pin 14 is Getting no voltage
Pin 15 is Outputting double voltage

So the Pins that are getting incorrect voltage I need to trace on the shematic

Pin3-zero
Pin4-zero
Pin5-double
Pin6-zero
Pin7-double
Pin9-zero
Pin11-zero
Pin14-zero
Pin15-double

Pin 4 is outputting 0 voltage to Pins 14 and 3
Pin 5 is getting double voltage from Pin 1 of IC6
Pin 6 is outputting zero voltage to pins 9 and 11
Pin 7 is getting double voltage from Pins 2 and 5 on IC6

So it looks like I need to take a look at IC6 next







Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 11, 2016, 04:57:23 PM
IF it was me... this is what I would do.

- Remove IC5 and IC9. Check voltage readings on IC6 and see if they are still incorrect. If they are, I would look at the supporting clock circuit components (R38, R39, R40, C22, C24, Q2, Q5, etc.) and also check for solder bridges on the IC6 socket.
- If the voltages are good, then your problem... to me.... HAS to be IC5.

*** Remember that IC6 Pin 5 should be the same as Pin 2. The build doc is still incorrect. ***

Good Luck
Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: rmfroyd on March 11, 2016, 05:22:07 PM
Thanks Govmnt-Lacky!



Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: rmfroyd on March 12, 2016, 02:30:46 PM
IC6 was at fault.  I am so happy.
Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: Orbis_Ignis on March 12, 2016, 09:12:39 PM
Quote from: rmfroyd on March 12, 2016, 02:30:46 PM
IC6 was at fault.  I am so happy.

Glad you got that sorted out. The Collosalus was my first failure and last. Trying to keep it that way. Just glad I conquered it, lol
Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: brucer on March 12, 2016, 09:39:40 PM
Nice troubleshooting! Way to be persistent.
Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: rmfroyd on March 12, 2016, 10:24:40 PM
I hane never been so frustrated in my life...but i know a metric shiton more about troubleshooting and reading schematics. 

Thanks to all of those that helped me out with this.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on March 14, 2016, 03:31:10 PM
Need to change the thread title to "Collosalus (I am VICTORIOUS!!!)

Great work... enjoy.  ;)
Title: Re: Collosalus (I am failure)
Post by: darrenw6000 on March 20, 2016, 11:42:00 PM
So how's it sounding? I'm attempting this myself soon.