Here is my fuzz collection. I will post the remaining two hopefully tomorrow. I was interrupted by sleeping children before I could finish!
NOS Mullard black glass OC140 germanium fuzz face. Q2 is biased at 5.1 volts and the output cap is 47nF.
Lunar Module with all NOS TI BC109C
Screwdriver with AC176 (hfe ~100) not on a Cosmo board but should be almost the same.
Okay The last two on my board at the moment. I have a prototyped fuzz face with 2n404 PNP's that I built up last night but my proto box has a broken output jack :-[ . So Maybe later when I get the Warhead up and running I can demo that too.
CV7112 Germanium Fuzz Face with the Fuller mods, external Q2 bias. 47n Output cap biased to around 4.8v in this video.
Skreddy Mayo clone can be built on the Mudbunny board. This is on perfboard and is one of the very first usable pedals I built. Has a flat mids switch and a switch to change the first three trannies to 2n5089 from 2n5088 (very subtle change 2n5088 has more "triangliness" too it).
Yesss!! This is awesome Paul...great demos! The fuzz face is really smooth! sounds great. The lunar fuzz is definitely the most aggressive which I love...and the screwdriver was in between the lunar and the FF in terms of aggressiveness...they all sound fantastic.
Thanks for this man! I'll be hooked checking your demos as you post them!
-Kaleb
Thanks for these fantastic demos! That fuzz face is huge and gnarly. I'm hearing so much bass response and that clean-up ability is even more amazing. Your really hitting the nail on the head in terms on tone of this one! :)
Didn't realize the SD and LM were so close. Definitely sounds like the lunar module I built. Fat muffy fuzz that sounds super smooth. I have to admit that its much more versatile than a normal 3 knob muff and can really shape shift! Stoked to see the rest of the pedals your gonna demo.
Thanks guys. Coming up next are the Mayo and the FF with CV7112's. The two fuzz faces sound very similar but the CV7112's are slightly smoother and warmer than the OC140's.
Kaleb, you nailed it with that description. Th LM and SD sound similar with the SD having a more germanium warmth to it. I love all of them. I am a fuzz fanatic. I also bought a bunch of NOS 2n404's from Julien that I cannot wait to fire up on the R&D board.
Also my Warhead Vibe should be done in the next few days here...
Quote from: JakeFuzz on June 15, 2011, 03:38:04 AM
Thanks guys. Coming up next are the Mayo and the FF with CV7112's. The two fuzz faces sound very similar but the CV7112's are slightly smoother and warmer than the OC140's.
Kaleb, you nailed it with that description. Th LM and SD sound similar with the SD having a more germanium warmth to it. I love all of them. I am a fuzz fanatic. I also bought a bunch of NOS 2n404's from Julien that I cannot wait to fire up on the R&D board.
Also my Warhead Vibe should be done in the next few days here...
Great! Thanks! haha I'm really looking forward to hear the CV7112s in action man...I ordered a pair of those based on your suggestions for my first Fuzz Face! I can't wait to get them in to fire it up...It's gonna be called the Kreigsheld Flaum (War Hero Fuzz). I'm excited! :D
-Kaleb
Any chance you've got an Os Mutantes fuzz to be demoed? I've been really curious about hearing that one.
Quote from: lincolnic on June 15, 2011, 04:46:46 AM
Any chance you've got an Os Mutantes fuzz to be demoed? I've been really curious about hearing that one.
I wish man. I need to bread board that up and see how it sounds. I don't usually have those trannies around but I can find something that works.
Quote from: k.rock! on June 15, 2011, 04:28:29 AM
Great! Thanks! haha I'm really looking forward to hear the CV7112s in action man...I ordered a pair of those based on your suggestions for my first Fuzz Face! I can't wait to get them in to fire it up...It's gonna be called the Kreigsheld Flaum (War Hero Fuzz). I'm excited! :D
-Kaleb
Yes!!! You wont regret it, best sounding FF trannies I have ever tried, Ill try and get a demo up tomorrow but you'll love it guaranteed. You building a straight FF or adding on mods? I really like 47n as an output cap, maintains the bassiness of the Germanium fuzz but has good clarity for single note stuff, definitely socket and experiment this position.
Great vids! Keep'em coming ;)
Quote from: lincolnic on June 15, 2011, 04:46:46 AM
Any chance you've got an Os Mutantes fuzz to be demoed? I've been really curious about hearing that one.
I just built one of these rcently. I will try to get a video together for it soon. I have been meaning to make a contribution to this section anyway. I experimented with several transistors and gains and I can demo different types so you can decide for yourself what you like the best. My favorites were actual metal can 2n2222a's around 180 and 220.
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Yes!!! You wont regret it, best sounding FF trannies I have ever tried, Ill try and get a demo up tomorrow but you'll love it guaranteed. You building a straight FF or adding on mods? I really like 47n as an output cap, maintains the bassiness of the Germanium fuzz but has good clarity for single note stuff, definitely socket and experiment this position.
Yeah I'm planning to build a straight FF with an external bias control just for fun :) I'll definitely play with that output cap! I had bought already an orange drop 10n, but I'll just go get a 47n for experimentation as well ;) Thanks for the suggestions! Really looking forward to hearing those CV7112s in action man!
-Kaleb
Vids are up! Julien hooked it up with a bunch of 2n404's so ill try and get my broken design board together and demo that next along with my Warhead which should be done tomorrow or Friday! Excited ;D
Whoa!! It does sound incredible! They both do! Great job man...
I'm curious, how did you use the CV7112s? According to this link:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c721895133dc76daac87b2939f960a83&topic=45124.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c721895133dc76daac87b2939f960a83&topic=45124.0)
It says that those are symmetrical, which means they can use the "dot" marking as the emitter or as the collector and that there is a gain difference on them...Did you know about this??
Anyways, thanks for posting these. Can't wait till I get mine in :D
Quote from: k.rock! on June 15, 2011, 10:35:07 PM
Whoa!! It does sound incredible! They both do! Great job man...
I'm curious, how did you use the CV7112s? According to this link:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c721895133dc76daac87b2939f960a83&topic=45124.0 (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c721895133dc76daac87b2939f960a83&topic=45124.0)
It says that those are symmetrical, which means they can use the "dot" marking as the emitter or as the collector and that there is a gain difference on them...Did you know about this??
Anyways, thanks for posting these. Can't wait till I get mine in :D
Yeah I found that too and really want to try them out the other way. I use the red dot as the collector, I cant really remember why but I think it was an old article that I found that specified this pinout convention. You may end up with OC140's, I did when I ordered that pair a second time from SB (years after the first pair). But they both sound almost identical (and I just account for it in the gain differences).
Quote from: dwstanford on June 15, 2011, 07:54:22 PM
I just built one of these rcently. I will try to get a video together for it soon. I have been meaning to make a contribution to this section anyway. I experimented with several transistors and gains and I can demo different types so you can decide for yourself what you like the best. My favorites were actual metal can 2n2222a's around 180 and 220.
Awesome! Looking forward to hearing it, thanks!
Nice! It's hard to pick a favorite, but I think I'm leaning toward the straight up Fuzz Face. They all sound so good, though!
So I got into my friends studio with a Russian rock band full of oldie soviet rockers tonight. I tagged along as a tone consultant and let the two guitarists use my board. We testing using many old-school amps and the pedals everyone really liked were the Screwdriver and a tie between the Timmy and Fulldrive 2. It should be said these guys were looking for a fat heavy tone and their cleanest settings were crunchier than how I play 90% of the time.
We were playing through a brownface vibroverb, a brownface deluxe, a silverface bandmaster piggyback and a vox ac50. The 1970's JMP was not working because of a missing tube. He also has a supro thunderbolt (head conversion) but we recorded with that a few months ago and it sounds epic all alone. One player was using an American Tele and the other a baritone Danelectro.
They also loved the Warhead vibe despite it still having a slight bit of distortion that I haven't been able to troubleshoot out. They loved the pedals so much I have been enlisted to design and build some custom jobs in the next month or so. Just wanted to let everyone know which pedals have been studio and pro musician approved!
huh, no love for a sunking?
Quote from: jtn191 on June 22, 2011, 09:16:26 PM
huh, no love for a sunking?
Yeah that surprised me too. They played with my Sunking for quite a while. They said it didn't have enough gain for what they wanted. This is the second Sunking of mine these two guitar players have tested and both times they liked the Fulldrive 2 better for what they were playing. I really think if they were a blues band with bright clean Fenders they would have chosen differently. Also we weren't really able to showcase the insane amount of boost the Sunking has on tap, maybe next week.
Tested a few of the 2n404's Julien hooked me up with. They sound good, much more treble and bite out of these than the OC140 or CV7112 which also makes them sound less smooth. Sounds very much like every other fuzz face I have heard though. Also tested a high gain pair (170~210) and it sounded awesome, very muff like wall of fuzz. The decay still remains smooth, not crackly. Also tried a hybrid config (2n3906 in Q1) and it sounds very cool, different but cool. The hybrid actually sounds like the wooly mammoth that I tried a while back but with slightly less gain.
Definitely need more testing and different circuits but these are A+ in the FF as far as I am concerned (thanks a bunch Julien!). I think keep the 500K output pot, a 68n output cap and a 47uF fuzz cap should sound good!
I'm glad to hear they please you ;) I'm happy with them too! I had good results when using the same hfe for q1 and q2 too!
I'm trying lots of combinations at the moment, searching for my holy grail...
Picked up a pair of high gain CV7112's from Aron over at DIY stompboxes. Gains are about 500 and 650. Definitely get that peppermint fuzz tone, sounds awesome. I also tried flipping them and they sound very FF like. I am going to experiment with different hybrid configs but I sense some switching action possibilities with these. Just spreading the word if anyone was in the market for some CV's.
Quote from: JakeFuzz on August 23, 2011, 07:39:35 AM
Picked up a pair of high gain CV7112's from Aron over at DIY stompboxes. Gains are about 500 and 650. Definitely get that peppermint fuzz tone, sounds awesome. I also tried flipping them and they sound very FF like. I am going to experiment with different hybrid configs but I sense some switching action possibilities with these. Just spreading the word if anyone was in the market for some CV's.
I would love to try 'em out...those were your recommendation for my fuzz and I placed the order at SB and got OC140's from them instead...
Do you think it's worth it? I mean, I remember you saying the OC140s and the CVs sounded about the same...
-Kaleb
I love both actually. My OC140 FF is a bit more clear and cleans up better but the CV's are really smooth, I use them for different things.
The ones Aron is selling are all super high gain. The ones I have are both close to hfe 600 so they wont sound like a fuzz face at all. They sound really compressed and sort of gated, if you check out the vids for the AM peppermint fuzz they sound very similar to the dark version (but I am betting you could brighten it up with output cap changes). I definitely need to experiment with different configurations. Aron also found out that these are symmetric devices so you can flip the emitter and collector and get a different gain (although they still wont be in classic FF gain ranges). I think it would be worth it if you wanted this specific sound.
Just played around with this more. Putting a high gain silicon in Q1 makes things much brighter and more aggressive, i don't like it. The best sound is with two CV's, super smooth, somewhere between the peppermint dark and a really good sounding FF. The decay isn't as crackly as the Pepper but the attack and bloom of the notes is the same. I used a 15n output cap and it sounds really good, I think I am just going to box it up like that (and an external bias knob) when I get a chance. It is different enough from a FF where I can justify having it alongside my other fuzzes. I may just buy another set [ ::)] if my new amp project doesn't come out to be too expensive.
Awesome demos. I really like your guitar playing as well. You have great dynamics and I can hear that "pluinkiness" when you play that I really love. Just great!
Question for the Fuzz master: I am a fuzz noob and never really could get use to that sound compared to the cranked Marshall or a Mesa sound. That being said, how do you cover Hendrix on a Mesa! So I need a fuzz but I like a warm "woofie" sound that isn't splatty or gated sounding. I actually like the MXR MR173 classic 108 demo (pro guitar shop demo on youtube) but everyone says that germanium is warmer than silicon. I also liked the sound of the Fulltone 69 slight return better than the original in those demos. So what the heck do I build and what trannies should I try? I think I liked the sound of the purple box with the CV7112's the best. Would you agree that it is the closest to the description of what I like? If so, could I build that on the Zygote PCB?
Hendrix played a Ge Fuzz Face, and was known to use a Big Muff and other Fuzz pedals as well. The classic Fuzz Face is the associated tone for Hendrix though. If you built a Zygote/Mangler with matched Ge transistors you'd be most of the way there. Smallbear sells a bunch of great transistor pairs.
However, the Silicon Fuzz Face is still a great fuzz, and it's less tempermental. If you want something a little more utilitarian (and a little cheaper) build one of those with some BC108 or BC109 transistors.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on September 24, 2011, 03:40:22 PM
Hendrix played a Ge Fuzz Face, and was known to use a Big Muff and other Fuzz pedals as well.
Wasn't it a Guild Foxy Lady? Which is when Mr. EHX was commissioned to build fuzzrites..
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However, the Silicon Fuzz Face is still a great fuzz, and it's less tempermental. If you want something a little more utilitarian (and a little cheaper) build one of those with some BC108 or BC109 transistors.
I agree that the sili version is very simple and still produces a nice sound. Another version to look into is the sili/germ hybrid FF. Paul can tell you all about that one!! :)
Ahh, sorry didn't see this one for a while. Works been ridiculous. Shawnee, yes I think you would like the germanium fuzz face the best. I agree with Jacob, check out smallbear he has quite a good selection of pre-matched germanium pairs. I really like the sound of my CV7112's but I have yet to get that particular sound out of anything else (even my OC140's). I really want to try the BYOC ac128 pairs to see how those sound. Anything with two silicons is going to sound more splatty and gated than the Ge's, they are usually more trebley and harsh than the Ge's i've built. You could do what Magic is talking about and put a Si in Q1 and a a Ge in Q2. This gives me great results, sounds like a germanium FF but with better note clarity.
The thing I would absolutely recommend is the bias knob. This can help you clear up the wooliness or get you back to that woofed out fuzz. The other thing I really have started to like is the Gagan input cap blend. This controls the amount of bass going into the FF circuit which drastically effects the texture and amount of fuzz you get. The Joe Gagan easy face is a good place to start, it has a bias and the input cap thing. You can put a really wide range of Ge's in the Q2 position.
The exact configuration of that purple FF is the NPN continental pair from SB in a GGG boutique 60's PCB arrangement with the bias knob on the outside. All the main resistor values cam from the packaging on the transistors fro SB.
Thank you very much Jacob, Magic, and Paul for the insight!
I should add I'm also pretty biased against GE transistors which is why I didn't suggest them. Regardless Paul's Germ FF with the CV7112's is probably the best FF I've ever heard in person. My buddy had an old one modified by Analogman and Paul's definitely blew this thing out of the water. With the Input blend and Bias knob you'd have such a full array of sounds. With an additional starve knob it'd get downright unusable ;D
I have a buddy's BYOC ESV FF version that he asked me to fix for him. I believe the transistors are AC127's, they kinda look like a 1 watt cement resistor. It gets rough and nasty, but I'd replace it for CV7112's if it were my pedal in a flash.
Quote from: bigmufffuzzwizz on September 26, 2011, 04:31:58 PM
I should add I'm also pretty biased against GE transistors which is why I didn't suggest them. Regardless Paul's Germ FF with the CV7112's is probably the best FF I've ever heard in person. My buddy had an old one modified by Analogman and Paul's definitely blew this thing out of the water. With the Input blend and Bias knob you'd have such a full array of sounds. With an additional starve knob it'd get downright unusable ;D
I have a buddy's BYOC ESV FF version that he asked me to fix for him. I believe the transistors are AC127's, they kinda look like a 1 watt cement resistor. It gets rough and nasty, but I'd replace it for CV7112's if it were my pedal in a flash.
Haha, thanks Magic. Yeah for some reason people really love that pedal. It is acting kind of weird, I think it might be a bad switch or socket. It cuts out when I kick it. If I ever find a big batch of well priced CV's I am buying all of them, been trying for a while now though with no luck! Ill let you guys know if I find anything.
Can you tell me what the gain is on your CV7112's?
Quote from: shawnee on September 27, 2011, 11:07:09 AM
Can you tell me what the gain is on your CV7112's?
I honestly don't remember. I think it was around 90 and 130 for Q1 and Q2 respectively. Its been a few years since I actually purchased these so the papers that came with them have disappeared. I am not sure if it is the specific gains in this pedal or what but there is some kind of magic mojo thing going on. I need to work on it maybe this weekend to fix the footswitch. If I get the chance maybe Ill pull the trannies out and measure them.
OK so they are pretty much in the normal gain range. Thanks.
great videos, loved the sounds. the mayo is nice, as are the FFs. i liked reading all your notes about the transistors. the way the oc144 ff cleaned up at 2:03 is impressive. your chops are great as well.
after all these years, i still find that i like the si Q1 /hot ge Q2 combo a lot in FFs. i recenlty tried a .002 silver mica treble bleed cap on the input gain of an easyface, makes the pedal clean up really nice. i also have a silver mica treble bleed cap in my tele, so, double treble bleed caps - gives a really wide range just from the guitar. i did a demo of john lyons peds , i thought it was an unfair advantage to represent the pedals this way, due to the high quality treble bleed and relatively low output pickups ( seymour duncan nashville studio lead and fender CS strat neck PU) i was afraid that customers would have unreasonable expectations of the cleanup factor. oh well.
anyway, here is the demo of the aforementioned easyface with treble bleed. you can see me turn down the pregain and the result. all other dist. changes are form pick attack changes or vol on guitar.
Awesome! When you say "hot" what kind of gain are you talking about? Also, is the silver mica cap a .002uF? Thanks.
.001 in the guitar and .002 in the pedal. silver mica both times. on the guitar , it is adjustable via a 500k pot. i cannot tell you how awesome it is to have a controllable treble bleed right on the guitar. makes almost any fuzz or dist clean up like magic.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/joegagan/schems/poy1.jpg)
hot to me means 125 to 140 hfe using Rg's method. after testing thousands of GEs i have rarely seen one go above 140 so i don't understand when ppl tell me they have a germ with a gain of 200. i think the testing methods are not always the same playing field.
by the way, most fuzzfactory germs are in this same 120 - 130 range, usually. i think there is some magic to that gain.
Thanks Joe!!!
oh, and by the way. small bear's testing method also coincides with the numbers i speak of. he lists a hot Ge at over 200hfe but for the most part he doesn't talk about gain numbers too much in the descriptions. however, the easyface set he sells guarantees at least 120 in the Ge, steve asked me the spec years ago.
Wow that fuzz sounds amazing Joe! is that a salvaged old FF case? Very cool. I really like your easy face design, the variable input cap thing has become my new favorite, I've been putting it in everything.
As for hot GE's you can check out DIYSB for really hot CV7112's (mentioned earlier in this thread). Aron quotes these around 500 for hfe but one of mine came in at 200 and the other around 60 ??? I emailed him and he said it must have been one that slipped by. Oh well, i am sure his testing method is fine for the rest of the batch.
After reading and hearing the reports from the Fuzz masters around here, I am in the market for some CV7112's. So where should I get them? I can get a pair from smallbear in the "right" gain range for $26-$30, or DIYStompboxes for $8 each but no idea what the gains will be. I really want this particular tranny because it's an NPN, they are supposedly a little more consistent than some of the other germaniums, and you guys that know what you are talking about seem to love them. I want a matched pair and maybe a single to use for a si/Ge hybrid. Are there any other sources out there? I would be willing to go in a lot with you guys if there is one to be had.
Quote from: shawnee on October 04, 2011, 09:16:30 PM
After reading and hearing the reports from the Fuzz masters around here, I am in the market for some CV7112's. So where should I get them? I can get a pair from smallbear in the "right" gain range for $26-$30, or DIYStompboxes for $8 each but no idea what the gains will be. I really want this particular tranny because it's an NPN, they are supposedly a little more consistent than some of the other germaniums, and you guys that know what you are talking about seem to love them. I want a matched pair and maybe a single to use for a si/Ge hybrid. Are there any other sources out there? I would be willing to go in a lot with you guys if there is one to be had.
I would go to small bear for the matched set definitely. I have been searching forever for a good big batch of these and I haven't been able to locate a reliable source that is decently priced. Most parts mining places quote me from $8-16 a piece which is still no good for surplus buys. The thing about small bear is that he ships either OC140 or CV7112 and even though we say they are the same they are not really, the CV uses different semiconductor material. So it is pretty much luck of the draw when you're buying from SB, both are fantastic transistors though.
If you want just a single one for the hybrid fuzz I would say go with the DIYSB one. It is well priced. Even though he quotes the gain ranges as quite high you can flip the collector and emitter to get a different gain (how much different is really variable). And I find for hybrid fuzz you have a pretty wide range of options for the Ge (doesn't need to be as specific as a lower gain all Ge arrangement).
I have also recently been informed that DSI makes a new production version of the OC140. I knew they made OC81D's which were consistent but had very low gain. I have emailed their distributor to see what the full story is on those.
Order from smallbear has been placed. I'll post what I got and the gains when they get here. Thanks everyone.