madbeanpedals::forum

General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: peAk on April 24, 2014, 03:33:38 PM

Title: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: peAk on April 24, 2014, 03:33:38 PM
One thing I have noticed that most people on here board mount their pots. I understand this enables you to not have to deal with wiring them which keeps things cleaner as well as having your PCB secure but it also pigeonholes you into having to have your knobs wherever they are located on the PCB which can take away some of the DIY fun IMO. 

For me personally, I like the freedom of placing knobs wherever I want them and a lot of times that depends on the graphics and/or enclosure. I have yet to board mount a pot and I am almost afraid to because I think the ease of it might convert me. It is irritating dealing with the extra wire and fitting stuff in tighter places....no doubt.

I am just curious what other people thought about this.

Discuss
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: GermanCdn on April 24, 2014, 03:40:42 PM
Originally I was against the idea of board mounted pots, specifically because my brain works exactly backwards for where the Gain and Level pots should go on most boards; I like my gain on the left hand (output) side and the level on the right hand side, as when I'm looking at my amps, typically gain is left, then BMT, with level on the right.

But then, as I built more and more board mounted pcbs, it is soooo much more convenient and fast in the building process, and typically results in a far cleaner build, so I tend to just give in to that.

The compromise I sometimes make if I really don't like the knob layout is to board mount one pot and then wire up the rest, that way it still holds the board in place.

On builds with multiple toggles and pots, I tend to board mount the toggles and wire up the pots.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: ckim715 on April 24, 2014, 03:43:02 PM
Quote from: GermanCdn on April 24, 2014, 03:40:42 PM

The compromise I sometimes make if I really don't like the knob layout is to board mount one pot and then wire up the rest, that way it still holds the board in place.

SUCH A GENIUS IDEA!!!!!
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: culturejam on April 24, 2014, 03:46:01 PM
Quote from: GermanCdn on April 24, 2014, 03:40:42 PM
The compromise I sometimes make if I really don't like the knob layout is to board mount one pot and then wire up the rest, that way it still holds the board in place.

This is something I've done in the past as well.

There is no rule that you must board-mount pots that are laid out for that kind of mounting. Just ignore that and wire it up manually if you want a different hardware layout.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: selfdestroyer on April 24, 2014, 04:12:02 PM
Same here.. on vero builds I try to get at lease one pot board mounted with solid copper wire to hold the board in place. I am a huge fan of board mounted pots mainly due to the fact that I had velcro or double sided tape in side my builds.

Cody
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: juansolo on April 24, 2014, 07:54:21 PM
I board mount whenever possible, but I don't always stick with the prescribed layout.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: davent on April 24, 2014, 10:26:12 PM
Quote from: peAk on April 24, 2014, 03:33:38 PM
One thing I have noticed that most people on here board mount their pots. I understand this enables you to not have to deal with wiring them which keeps things cleaner as well as having your PCB secure but it also pigeonholes you into having to have your knobs wherever they are located on the PCB which can take away some of the DIY fun IMO. 

For me personally, I like the freedom of placing knobs wherever I want them and a lot of times that depends on the graphics and/or enclosure. I have yet to board mount a pot and I am almost afraid to because I think the ease of it might convert me. It is irritating dealing with the extra wire and fitting stuff in tighter places....no doubt.

I am just curious what other people thought about this.

Discuss

Ditto!

For me outer esthetics totally trumps inner convenience so in that regard, for the most part, pcb mount don't do it for me. Seems i can usually discern which builds have pcb mounted pots without ever having seen the pcb or a gut shot.

Convenience for me is edge-of-pcb pot/switch-pads and pcb space for stand-offs.

... and... takes me forever to finish a pedal.
dave
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: alanp on April 24, 2014, 11:30:12 PM
Tell you what, all you lot must, in penance, build a Lovetone Meatball clone.

Not a musicpcb Meatsphere.

Not one of my Rissole boards.

Or a copy of the original Lovetone PCB.

But with flying wires, to ALL the rotaries. This is the McMeat project, you can google it.

Since board-mounting is nanny-state hand-holding, and all ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: ggarms on April 25, 2014, 12:57:58 AM
OBAMACARE FORCES PEDAL BUILDERS TO BOARD MOUNT POTS

/pedalalexjones
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: davent on April 25, 2014, 01:05:18 AM
I'm in canada, my health care's covered no matter what... ok  i'd have to pay for the ambulance ride but that's like flat rate bus fare.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: Droogie on April 25, 2014, 01:32:16 AM
See my latest build report for Socialist over-reliance on board-mounted pots. It's dragging this country straight down in a blaze of distorted, fuzzy madness.  :)
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: lincolnic on April 25, 2014, 04:26:14 AM
He said if I was happy with my wired pots, I could keep them...thanks, Obama.

For real, though, I love how board-mounted pots make a build easier and cleaner. It does mean you have to be more careful with your drilling, but I'm pretty lazy, so convenience generally wins if I'm given the option. Wiring is my least favorite part of a build.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: blearyeyes on April 25, 2014, 07:17:56 AM
Really depends on how well the board mounted pots are laid out...  Some are great, some are stupid...
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: gtr2 on April 25, 2014, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: ggarms on April 25, 2014, 12:57:58 AM
OBAMACARE FORCES PEDAL BUILDERS TO BOARD MOUNT POTS

What if I can't log into the website?
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: ckim715 on April 25, 2014, 01:26:27 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on April 25, 2014, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: ggarms on April 25, 2014, 12:57:58 AM
OBAMACARE FORCES PEDAL BUILDERS TO BOARD MOUNT POTS

What if I can't log into the website?
We appreciate your patience as the Board Mount Exchange undergoes renovation. We assure you we have the most qualified people addressing the issues that have been identified. That being said, an alternative is the VERO program, located at https://www.ohmygodihavetosolderhowmuch.com/thisisgoingtotakeforever/italllookssougly.aspx.

Thank you for your patience, and we look forward to your enrollment in the Board Mount Program (BMP) in the near future!
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: peAk on April 25, 2014, 01:40:26 PM
man, this thread took a turn  ???
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: RobA on April 25, 2014, 03:54:39 PM
One of the reasons I don't like board mounted pots is that pretty much determines the enclosure for you. The only pedal I've built and actually used the board mounted pots is the Current Lover and I wish I hadn't on that one because I'd prefer to put it in a bigger box. I still love the pedal and it's one of my favorites, but I'll probably end up doing it again sometime so that I can stick it into a bigger or multi-enclosure.

But, I can also see the point in using board mounted parts. I hate wiring DPDT or bigger switches, so I'd almost always prefer to do those on the PCB. It can also really help reduce noise in high gain settings. I just got back the proto boards for one and I've built one of them with jumper headers so I could play with the parts easily and it's way more prone to noise than the version built with the board mounted parts. That should be less of an issue in the box, but it is still there. Another thing is when they just have too many components that would have to be wired. I've got another that I just got the PCB's back for that has seven knobs and three pots. I would really hate to have wire that without board mounted pots. When I was laying it out, I couldn't find a satisfactory way to place the connections on the edge that wouldn't have been a jumble of crossing leads and a total mess to wire. I think that one pretty much had to be done as board mounted. A downside is it is pretty much stuck with the pots and switches I chose for it (9mm type) and I think that's kinda bad too. I did go with putting the pots either on the top edge or close to the side edges so that it would be reasonable to off board wire those (the 9mm pots really help with this), but the toggles are in the middle of the board and they would be more of a pain to take off board.

So, I don't know, I see tradeoffs with each and I'm not really sure which I really prefer yet.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: jkokura on April 25, 2014, 04:11:21 PM
I haven't said my piece yet, I was waiting and thinking.

I think it's pretty obvious that I prefer Board Mount Pots. It's how my PCBs are all designed, and further, pretty much all of them follow a specific template in terms of drilling and mounting those pots on an enclosure. I do this for the following reasons:
1. Makes it easier on the average builder. Yes, some people prefer non-mounted pots, but there is no denying how much easier soldering in PCB mount pots is. It both provides a stable mount for the PCB into the enclosure, and means less of those tiny, finicky wires.
2. It's easier to do a PCB with mounted pots and then allow someone to not use PCB mount pots, than it is to use non-PCB mount pads for the pots and then have someone try and use PCB mount pots. In other (more simple) words, using PCB mount pots in the PCB design allows for both crowds to use the PCB. The other way means someone's being left out.
3. There are some builds it's just a no brainer to do it this way. For instance, the Testing Rig, which utilizes 4 switches as well as two pots, or the Hamlet+ that's 6 pots and a SPDT, and the upcoming Stone Cold Phaser which will utilize 4 pots and AND 4 switches (one of which is a 3PDT). That much wiring is a pain, and there's no way you could use the enclosures effectively without Board mounting everything.

Jacob
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: pickdropper on April 25, 2014, 04:29:46 PM
I love the simplicity of PCB mount pots and will use them if their location fits where I want the controls to go.

If I want a different layout, I just wire them off-board; problem solved.  With some things.

If I am doing a board layout for 1590a, I don't bother with board mount pots as I can't use them.  I'd rather save the board real estate.  On anything larger than that, I nearly always put board mount pots.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: pietro_moog on April 25, 2014, 05:08:53 PM
i don't consider building stuff without board mounted pots anymore. i wanna save time for myself, not waste it wiring stuff i don't need. 
Title: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: rullywowr on April 25, 2014, 05:10:43 PM
Board mount pots are the shiznit!  They take care of mounting the PCB and simplify off board wiring.  If the pot layout doesn't work for you, you can always mount one of the pots and wire the rest (as previously mentioned). Once I tried mounted pots, I never looked back.  All of my layouts use board mounted pots and I am very happy with them. I am moving forward to board mounting everything.,,which reduces build time and increases reliability if done right.  If one is on the fence about board mounted pots, you can always roll your own by making your own layout.   Certain layouts require off board pots/controls but the vast  majority is all board mounted.  :)
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: TNblueshawk on April 25, 2014, 06:07:02 PM
I guess I'll be the lone straggler here. I've built close to 60+ pedals. The only board mounted pots I did were from the BYOC kits since the enclosure came with it I paid for it predrilled. Otherwise the reason is I like a different layout on the pedal for the knobs. Nothing more nothing less. Is it worth the extra time? Yep, for me. I build mostly for myself so I don't mind. I like the artistic freedom that scratches that itch for me.

Having said that I will say building two of these Magnus Modulus's, sold one, was a total PITA  :o   Can't find my gut pic but you can imagine....

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2902/13611828655_95cd87d689.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94285707@N04/13611828655/)
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: twin1965 on April 25, 2014, 06:24:50 PM
I really dislike wires! I'll happily avoid wiring pots and switches. I still use vero so that's an exception but I normally only use vero for very basic circuits. If I want a slightly different pot layout then I'll use wires too. But I rarely do this. Now that I'm addicted to Eagle Cad I'm making my own layouts anyway so I can have any pot/switch arrangement I like. I recently made a PCB design for the WEM Project V with board mounted pots and switches. I wanted to make one but only a vero was available. All the wiring that had to be done, really put me off! Everyone has their preferences and looking at some of the builds here, there are some people who have this down to an art.
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: peAk on April 25, 2014, 06:32:03 PM
Quote from: TNblueshawk on April 25, 2014, 06:07:02 PM
I guess I'll be the lone straggler here. I've built close to 60+ pedals. The only board mounted pots I did were from the BYOC kits since the enclosure came with it I paid for it predrilled. Otherwise the reason is I like a different layout on the pedal for the knobs. Nothing more nothing less. Is it worth the extra time? Yep, for me. I build mostly for myself so I don't mind. I like the artistic freedom that scratches that itch for me.

Having said that I will say building two of these Magnus Modulus's, sold one, was a total PITA  :o   Can't find my gut pic but you can imagine....

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2902/13611828655_95cd87d689.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94285707@N04/13611828655/)

Holy Shit that is badass!
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: alanp on April 25, 2014, 08:26:06 PM
Well... Muffs are one thing, with only 3 3-wire offboard connections, but past that, you really need to either bring your Juan-game wiring, or use board mounted.

Especially when you're dealing with rotaries. 15 wires per switch! Have fun, kids! Don't get any wrong!
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: juansolo on April 26, 2014, 05:51:01 AM
You can have board mount and your own knob layout ;) Just takes a bit of creativity with solid core....
Title: Re: Mounted Pots vs Wired Pots....
Post by: davent on April 26, 2014, 03:55:22 PM
I roll my own boards and and looking at the use of board mounted pots its with commercial boards having plated through holes so its a simple matter to bottom mount the pots, switches, whatever and then solder from the topside. Without plated through holes you can't bottom mount the usually-used rotary switches, toggle switches and looking at many layouts you'd be hard pressed to get an iron to all the pot pads with the way things are layed out.

You're left with having to top-of-board mount the pots and switches so they can be soldered to the bottom of the board which leads to all kinds of wasted board and large boards because you can't have other components in the space now needed for the bodies of those  now board mounted controls.

My builds are usually pretty simple so no big deal for off board wiring, have done a Skyripper which is seven pots, one of those stereo, three toggles, two 3pdt stomps, two LEDs and an Fx loop, did board mount the LED's, secured the board with standoffs. No problems with wiring it all up, went together without any issues.
dave