I'm looking to improve the accuracy of the holes on my future enclosures. What are you using?
Drill press. It's the only way.
I've gotten pretty accurate handdrilling with a stepper bit and what helped me was to draw another bigger circle around the future hole so that I can judge if I'm straying away from the centre. Ideally the hole will be smack in the middle of the bigger marking, of course.
Then I got a drill press. EOT. ;D
Quote from: juansolo on March 31, 2014, 09:23:09 AM
Drill press. It's the only way.
+1. I screwed up every enclosure (at least a little bit, sometimes a lot) until I got my drill press.
Quote from: jball85 on March 31, 2014, 03:59:30 AM
I'm looking to improve the accuracy of the holes on my future enclosures. What are you using?
I feel your pain. If you don't get a press (I still haven't), like others mentioned, a step drill bit would help.
I make sure my drilling templates are as accurate as possible. I tape these to the top of the enclosure making sure that everything lines up properly. I then use a centre punch (an important step). I drill pilot holes using a 1mm drill bit. I find that starting with a small bit lowers the chances of it wondering as it fits snuggly in the centre punch. Then I use a couple more bits until I end up with a 4mm hole. This is the first size of my stepper bit. I then drill appropriate size holes but I make them a little bit bigger. This allows some wiggle room and makes it easier to fit the controls.
This seems to work for me and so far everything's been spot on.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
If getting a drill press is a step too far, then get a vice.
The trick to drilling good holes is stability.
+1 on the center punch. If not that then at least the hammer and nail method, but for under $10 I would get the center punch.
I used to have an issue drilling the sides of die cast enclosures. With the angled sides, the drill bit would not hit the surface at a 90 degree angle so the hole had a tendency to drift and the holes are not perfectly circular.
Now I temporarily tape a small drill bit on the opposite side of the enclosure and to make sure the drill bit hits the surface at 90 degrees.
Hope that makes sense
Andrew.
Accurate layout, accurately center punched, start with a very small (1/16"), very sharp, quality drill bit, not some piece crap from the local big box, i step up from the pilot to 3/32 ->1/8" and then a Unibit for the needed larger holes. You can do it with a hand drill but a drillpress is such a pleasure, a great tool to have if you can find the space, they don't have to be very big.
I need all the help i can get so i start with an optical center punch then use a spring punch to enlarge the dent.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_5357_zps7485758b.jpg)
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_5356_zps8a4bce53.jpg)
Seven pots in a row with a hand drill.
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_2260.jpg)
This press (http://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-bench-mount-drill-press-5-speed-60238.html) from HF is a good deal for our boxes. Benchtop presses are all you really need. I've seen guitars built with them. Look for the 20% off coupons to... you can get it super cheap! I have a used floor mount JET that I got super cheap from a going out of business sale. WAY more than I'll ever need. If you can get an XY vise ( aka cross slide vise, milling vise) for the press even better. Fair warning, they cost about as much as the cheapie press I linked. Totally worth it though. Their auto center punch (http://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html) is also worth it's weight in brass, though not as cool as Davent's optical punch.
Quote from: Clayford on March 31, 2014, 03:42:46 PM
This press (http://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-bench-mount-drill-press-5-speed-60238.html) from HF is a good deal for our boxes. Benchtop presses are all you really need. I've seen guitars built with them. Look for the 20% off coupons to... you can get it super cheap! I have a used floor mount JET that I got super cheap from a going out of business sale. WAY more than I'll ever need. If you can get an XY vise ( aka cross slide vise, milling vise) for the press even better. Fair warning, they cost about as much as the cheapie press I linked. Totally worth it though. Their auto center punch (http://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html) is also worth it's weight in brass, though not as cool as Davent's optical punch.
Where do you usually find the 20% off coupons?
Here's the optical punch.
(http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/woodworking/gifts/05n5901s1.jpg)
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=45502&cat=1,180,42311
Follow that with a punch much like the one Clayford linked above.
I have but never use a vice even when hand drilling. Great drill bits cut, they don't grab and spin the enclosure at all.
dave
Quote from: peAk on March 31, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
Quote from: Clayford on March 31, 2014, 03:42:46 PM
This press (http://www.harborfreight.com/8-in-bench-mount-drill-press-5-speed-60238.html) from HF is a good deal for our boxes. Benchtop presses are all you really need. I've seen guitars built with them. Look for the 20% off coupons to... you can get it super cheap! I have a used floor mount JET that I got super cheap from a going out of business sale. WAY more than I'll ever need. If you can get an XY vise ( aka cross slide vise, milling vise) for the press even better. Fair warning, they cost about as much as the cheapie press I linked. Totally worth it though. Their auto center punch (http://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html) is also worth it's weight in brass, though not as cool as Davent's optical punch.
Where do you usually find the 20% off coupons?
HF email blasts, and in their mailed advertisement papers. Go here (http://pref.harborfreight22.com/hftsignup/?src=HP_mid_banner) to sign up. If you have a local Harbor Freight, also check in the Sunday paper, in valpak or super saver coupon mailers. They might not be called val-pak in your area, but it's an advertising envelope full of coupons from different companies in your area. I've gotten them or something similar wherever I've lived. KY, OH, NC, SC, WV, VA. If you have a local HF, take your mailed advert paper in for them to scan, it's how they know you're using it. After x time of no scans they remove you to save on costs and waste.
Just found an online coupon for 25%
Got it a for a little more than $50.00 before tax shipping
Here is the coupon code: 93481220
Thanks for the tip!!
Sweet!\
Quote from: Clayford on March 31, 2014, 04:40:39 PM
Sweet!\
Dumb question, but if using a step drill with a press like this, do you still need a starter hole?
Yes, even with center punching the step bit can still skate pretty easily, being totally anal... after center punching i pilot all the holes with a 1/16" then 3/32" then 1/8" finally the step bit.
dave
Quote from: davent on March 31, 2014, 05:24:18 PM
Yes, even with center punching the step bit can still skate pretty easily, being totally anal... after center punching i pilot all the holes with a 1/16" then 3/32" then 1/8" finally the step bit.
dave
Just to be clear, if you have your enclosure clamped down and you are using a drill press, you are saying that the bit can still walk? I was under the assumption that it wouldn't walk with a press.
Yes it can walk. My drill press does have a bit of play which can cause alignment problems unless I feed slowly. Pilot holes can both help and hinder. They help if you keep the box clamped while changing from pilot bit to step bit but if you move the enclosure (if you drill all the pilot holes first) then there's a possibility that step bit won't be perfectly aligned with a pilot hole and the drill can pull the hole to the side. Not by much but if you are OCD then yes, you might have a problem there. ;D
Quote from: muddyfox on March 31, 2014, 05:40:01 PM
Yes it can walk. My drill press does have a bit of play which can cause alignment problems unless I feed slowly. Pilot holes can both help and hinder. They help if you keep the box clamped while changing from pilot bit to step bit but if you move the enclosure (if you drill all the pilot holes first) then there's a possibility that step bit won't be perfectly aligned with a pilot hole and the drill can pull the hole to the side. Not by much but if you are OCD then yes, you might have a problem there. ;D
Well, I am going to have to drill that Multiplex soon and that will have 10 knobs, 4 LEDs, 4 switches, ....errr....
...and this is what pushed me to get the press. Can't have the graphics off on this one.
Easy does it... as simple as that.
I can't see well enough to tell whether a center punch is lined up with the crosshairs of a layout nevermind telling whether the fat blunt end of the step bit is lined up with the small center punch dimple so i never secure the enclosure.
With a good punch mark and a 1/16" bit in the drillpress i slowly advance the spinning bit to the enclosure, i can get it pretty close to where it needs to be so the bit and dimple meet to a degree, with the slow feed and unsecured enclosure (loosely hand held) the bit will center the enclosure under it because the enclosure is free to move laterally held lightly by hand on the press table.
I step through up by 1/32" 'til i reach the stepbit start size and it's steps are 1/32" so each step is removing very little material, with such a small amount of material being removed, the pressure of the sharp drillbit and the enclosure/press table friction, the enclosure will just sit there and take being drilled, i can let go of the enclosure and the only time it moves is a slight jump as the bit breaks through. Did i mention sharp drill bits?
Of course this is not the recommended way to do things.
Followed the same drilling sequence when drilling by hand but by hand you can easily just put the 1/16" drillbit in the center of your punch mark, perfect!
Used the same method to accurately drill pcb's, let the drillpress drill bit center the pcb pad under it, then finish drilling the hole.
dave
Also, I drill things with a bit of give in all directions. That's what washers are for as far as I'm concerned.
That way I can wiggle the parts into place to some degree.
Quote from: davent on March 31, 2014, 07:07:30 PM
I can't see well enough to tell whether a center punch is lined up with the crosshairs of a layout nevermind telling whether the fat blunt end of the step bit is lined up with the small center punch dimple so i never secure the enclosure.
With a good punch mark and a 1/16" bit in the drillpress i slowly advance the spinning bit to the enclosure, i can get it pretty close to where it needs to be so the bit and dimple meet to a degree, with the slow feed and unsecured enclosure (loosely hand held) the bit will center the enclosure under it because the enclosure is free to move laterally held lightly by hand on the press table.
I step through up by 1/32" 'til i reach the stepbit start size and it's steps are 1/32" so each step is removing very little material, with such a small amount of material being removed, the pressure of the sharp drillbit and the enclosure/press table friction, the enclosure will just sit there and take being drilled, i can let go of the enclosure and the only time it moves is a slight jump as the bit breaks through. Did i mention sharp drill bits?
Of course this is not the recommended way to do things.
Followed the same drilling sequence when drilling by hand but by hand you can easily just put the 1/16" drillbit in the center of your punch mark, perfect!
Used the same method to accurately drill pcb's, let the drillpress drill bit center the pcb pad under it, then finish drilling the hole.
dave
Dave and I have the same basic theroy - but I start at 3/32 then hit my step bit. And yes all drill presses have some wobble in the spindle, even $4000.00 production floor mounted drill presses. We call them "manufacturing tolerances". The longer your stroke the more likely it is to happen. Setup your work so it's close to you bit without being right up on it.
Ive got a drill press vice, but every affordable drill press I've found, is reported to have serious drill bit run-off. If anyone has a model under $250 (preferably $200) that has worked accurately for them, please list the brand and model below.
oh and yep, Ive got a center punch. Its mainly the led and 3pdt holes, that I have trouble lining up.
Even my Jet has run out. You have to do everything you can to limit it. Your run out will increase as your stroke/depth increases. Your work shouldn't be more than an inch or so from your bit, with the spindle at complete rest(i.e. not stopped down 4 inches so it's 1" from your work" That's 4" of play you don't need). Make sure the bit is up as far as it can go into the chuck, your vise secured, your work is square to the bit.
Observe your bit at speed before you drill, you might not have it seated correctly. Bits that have a 1/4" Hex shank are more likely to wobble than smooth shafts. Those are not for a drill press, they are for a hand drill, and can/will increase your runoff Cutting lube helps too. A HF step bit with some lube went through an EB VPJR just fine. I've seen quality custom guitars built on $100 HF presses. Good tools help, but proper setup helps a LOT more.
Drill presses are great but you don't need one for this stuff and it's no guarantee that your results will be better then what you achieve with a handdrill.
For both you need the holes accurately layed out.
You need accurate center punched marks, i can't do that with a regular view-from-the-side punch so use an optical center punch to mark the holes then deepen/enlarge the marks with an automatic center-punch.
Drill pilot holes with a very sharp (quality) bit that is small enough to nest in or be contained by your dead accurate punch marks.
After that- step up with individual bits in small increments to the step bit starter size or the final sizes needed.
If you have a row of pots with a slight alignment problem you can always make the holes a bit oversize or file the misses oval to bring it all back into line. And unless things are crazy out of whack and nothing is said, you're probably the only one that will notice.
dave
I drilled a pilot hole then went up in increments (bigger drill bit sizes), this worked great. Im in the process of hunting down a titanium unibit. Does anybody have experience with cheaper versions of the unibit (not Irwin brand)?
So Clay, just an update....my HF Drill Press that you recommended arrived last week and I am going to put it into action this weekend.
It's amazing to me that this thing was so cheap ($52.50 with coupon). Pretty solid construction. I am not expected miracles but I am sure it's going to work a tad bit better than my 12v B&D handdrill. :P
Quote from: jball85 on April 10, 2014, 09:34:03 PM
I drilled a pilot hole then went up in increments (bigger drill bit sizes), this worked great. Im in the process of hunting down a titanium unibit. Does anybody have experience with cheaper versions of the unibit (not Irwin brand)?
I've got both the HF bits and the unibit. Both work just fine for me. I also like the non-stepped HF ones to enlarge holes a little at a time in some circumstances. Remember to "slow speed/slow feed." For the longest time I thought that HSS (high speed steel) bits were meant to run at high speed...nope! We are only drilling through aluminum so the bits should last a lot longer than when used with other metals as long as you run slow.
Quote from: davent on April 09, 2014, 11:36:00 PM
Drill presses are great but you don't need one for this stuff and it's no guarantee that your results will be better then what you achieve with a handdrill.
For both you need the holes accurately layed out.
You need accurate center punched marks, i can't do that with a regular view-from-the-side punch so use an optical center punch to mark the holes then deepen/enlarge the marks with an automatic center-punch.
Drill pilot holes with a very sharp (quality) bit that is small enough to nest in or be contained by your dead accurate punch marks.
After that- step up with individual bits in small increments to the step bit starter size or the final sizes needed.
If you have a row of pots with a slight alignment problem you can always make the holes a bit oversize or file the misses oval to bring it all back into line. And unless things are crazy out of whack and nothing is said, you're probably the only one that will notice.
dave
Dave is right on. For best accuracy, a center punch is required equipment - and using a template will help get them all alligned nicely. If you are careful, you can get away with using a stepped bit just on the punch marks. Just lower the press down until it "kisses" the mark, back away, and visually ensure that the step bit it is hitting that punch indent dead on. Then drill as normal. For extra accuracy, I use a 1/8" drill bit to drill the center punch marks at times. Especially when drilling the LEDs...I use a small pilot bit and then the appropriate size bit for the LED (3mm LED holes are too small for most step bits).
You guys already probably know this but when drilling pre painted/powdercoated boxes it helps to put a piece of cardboard down to protect the finish. As you drill, lots of chips will get all over the table and if you grind those chips between the enclosure and drill press work table you will screw up your nicely painted enclosure.
Just wanted to update this thread for anyone who was following it.
I got a chance to use the press last weekend and let me tell you.....it made drilling the enclosure about 100X easier, better, and faster.
Drilling was a part of pedal building that I always dreaded. Not anymore. \
Again, just $52 bucks from HF.
Thanks Clay for the recommendation.
Quote from: peAk on April 17, 2014, 11:54:56 AM
Just wanted to update this thread for anyone who was following it.
I got a chance to use the press last weekend and let me tell you.....it made drilling the enclosure about 100X easier, better, and faster.
Drilling was a part of pedal building that I always dreaded. Not anymore. \
Again, just $52 bucks from HF.
Thanks Clay for the recommendation.
I have 5 or 6 completed boards sitting on my desk unboxed because i loath drilling. Might need to bite the bullet and buy a press. For $52 i might take the plunge.
I have to even confess that I even drilled my side in/outs without even a starter hole, I just drilled it with a 1/8" and it drilled like butter. Used a step drill after that.
I drilled most with the starter punch first though. Like someone mentioned earlier, they don't clamp their enclosure down and sort of let the enclosure settle into the starter drill punch. This way worked perfect for me.
Quote from: davent on March 31, 2014, 03:57:13 PM
Here's the optical punch.
(http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/woodworking/gifts/05n5901s1.jpg)
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=45502&cat=1,180,42311
Follow that with a punch much like the one Clayford linked above.
I have but never use a vice even when hand drilling. Great drill bits cut, they don't grab and spin the enclosure at all.
dave
Dave, that optical punch is one of the coolest pieces of workbench bling I've ever seen.
I'm reviving my thread, as I found a solution to the slightly out line holes problem. I bought a cheap file set, and used a round file to enlarge the hole in the direction I needed the pot to be moved. This works perfectly, and the if it's not too bad to begin with, the potentiometer washer will cover any evidence or ugliness that comes a result of the hole enlarging. I strongly suggest anyone using a hand drill for their enclosure drilling to pick some up.
One more little tidbit of knowledge gained from experience. Although the aluminum is softer than steel it will almost weld itself to the flutes of your drill bits. You have to look closely and chip it off. If you don't, you'll see your holes out of round and the bit will have a tendency to stick while drilling. A good example of this is filing aluminum, it clogs up the file something terrible and you literally have to chip it out of the tiny indents. The stuff is pure misery to saw as well. (shaping bar stock).
Drill Press for sure. Drill speed would be 2nd. Aluminium does not like being drilled too fast. Medium or 2nd from slowest on a pillar drill (2400rpm ish) is about right. Plus dont just steam on through, you want to cut a bit, then raise the drill bit out, then do a bit more. This will help remove the ally from the hole and the drill spirals as you go, which makes cutting accurately much easier. If you are using a stepper bit, than have the drill on it slowest setting.
Also what i find useful for nice accurate side holes on Hammond enclosures is to use an angle vise, which allows you to have the angled box sides on a flat plane for drilling. You can do it without one, but drilling down onto an angled box will cause the drills to drift
http://www.grainger.com/product/GENERAL-Reamer-3ZG95?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3ZG95_AS01?$smthumb$ (http://www.grainger.com/product/GENERAL-Reamer-3ZG95?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3ZG95_AS01?$smthumb$)
Hand Reamers work really well for slightly enlarging holes when needed...
I used to just cheat, drill the hole smaller than desired and then finish it with a good circular file as I could shift the entire hole a bit if I wanted while opening it up and could get a nice smooth finish. Didn't really take that much longer.