I know this has been discussed to death, but I've been searching for answers for the past hour and cant find much definitive.
Old big box DMMs- MN3008 vs 3005- really not much difference? are they all run at higher voltage? I saw a bunch of people saying 24v but thats not right is it?
Are all the big box memory man's using either 3008's or 3005's and run at higher voltages?
From video demoes and my own experience the new Deluxe Memory Man in the diecast enclosures dont sound nearly as good... but i've never compared side by side. They repeats dont seem to meld as well, dont seem as warm, organic, and really dont flow as well when doing rhythmic stuff. EHX claims they're using NOS panasonic chips- whats the deal here? mn3205's? The tap tempo, fx loop, and expression pedal options would make this thing so freakin ultimate... but it doesnt sound the same does it?
I see smallbear still sells mn3008's at $20 a pop- if so many people are getting ripped off with mn3005's is the hang up with making a 4x mn3008 board the difficulty in calibrating?
Does the aquaboy have more like DM2 quality repeats or are they higher quality DMM style repeats?
Thanks so much- itd be nice to have these answers in one simple post for the people. Sorry, i'm sure its been covered but i havent been able to sort the fluff in over an hour. I'm about to just buy an old big box DMM and call it a day on that. now how about them legit mn3005's ;)
Older Memory Mans had 2x MN3005.
Newer ones have 4x MN3008.
The deluxe memory BOY, on the other hand, is the cool audio chips I think. (At least, I don't think they're Belling, but they're definitely not Panasonic.)
Quote from: midwayfair on December 28, 2013, 01:32:45 AM
Older Memory Mans had 2x MN3005.
Newer ones have 4x MN3008.
The deluxe memory BOY, on the other hand, is the cool audio chips I think. (At least, I don't think they're Belling, but they're definitely not Panasonic.)
Reissues in the larger box switched between 2 x 3005 and 4 x 3008, all XO are 4 x 3008, all vintage are 2 x 3005 or in the 4 knob DMM, 4 x SAD1024.
DMM TT is 4 x 3005, TT500 is 4 x 3008.
Deluxe Toy & Boy are 4 x BL3208 Beilling.
4 x 3008 is the same as 2 x 3005 for all intents and purposes, slight difference, not enough to notice though. Yes biasing is harder if you don't have a scope on hand but can be done adequately with an audio probe, time and care. Using 3005s may be down to mojo, the fact it requires daughter boards or as you say, just a bit more difficult.
Any sound change between full deluxe memory man delays is likely down to design changes, if any occurred... can't really say as there aren't any traces of the newer ones, the schematics for the big box reissues are close enough apart from slight changes to the originals though. I would wager they sound damn close, Mike Matthews is known for not changing a good thing if he can avoid it... probably just the demos.
24V was the adapter, there was a -15V regulator internally, CMOS (4047 clock chip) and BBDs will die at much above.
Aquaboy is a DM-2/Aqua puss port so should be much the same.
Quote from: Scruffie on December 28, 2013, 03:11:30 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on December 28, 2013, 01:32:45 AM
Older Memory Mans had 2x MN3005.
Newer ones have 4x MN3008.
The deluxe memory BOY, on the other hand, is the cool audio chips I think. (At least, I don't think they're Belling, but they're definitely not Panasonic.)
Reissues in the larger box switched between 2 x 3005 and 4 x 3008, all XO are 4 x 3008, all vintage are 2 x 3005 or in the 4 knob DMM, 4 x SAD1024.
DMM TT is 4 x 3005, TT500 is 4 x 3008.
Deluxe Toy & Boy are 4 x BL3208 Beilling.
4 x 3008 is the same as 2 x 3005 for all intents and purposes, slight difference, not enough to notice though. Yes biasing is harder if you don't have a scope on hand but can be done adequately with an audio probe, time and care. Using 3005s may be down to mojo, the fact it requires daughter boards or as you say, just a bit more difficult.
Any sound change between full deluxe memory man delays is likely down to design changes, if any occurred... can't really say as there aren't any traces of the newer ones, the schematics for the big box reissues are close enough apart from slight changes to the originals though. I would wager they sound damn close, Mike Matthews is known for not changing a good thing if he can avoid it... probably just the demos.
24V was the adapter, there was a -15V regulator internally, CMOS (4047 clock chip) and BBDs will die at much above.
Aquaboy is a DM-2/Aqua puss port so should be much the same.
mike matthews not known for changes? i dont know if i can agree with that at all. there are sooo many variations among ehx pedals
man the new ones do not sound the same at all. i feel this way about pretty much all of the new ehx pedals in the XO enclosures... maybe those flimsy aluminum enclosures have all the tonez!
anyone else out there compared a big box reissue (my favorite DMM was a big box reissue with the external wall wart- which i believe was a 9v adapter- maybe with a voltage increaser? not even sure if it was mn3005 or mn3008)
i dont know if ive played just the regular XO DMM though. maybe thats my ticket...
i've noticed tone differences between xo and big box ehx pedals on the pogs, microsynths, big muffs, small clone, and a few others i believe. And I dont think they are subtle... its not like a whole tonal shift, but all the new xo ones just dont sound as warm and fat, and they sound colder and dare I say 'more metallic' haha
for what its worth- ive also seen the metallic descriptor elsewhere. and i thought that before i read it.
Quote from: claytushaywood on December 30, 2013, 06:19:35 AM
Quote from: Scruffie on December 28, 2013, 03:11:30 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on December 28, 2013, 01:32:45 AM
Older Memory Mans had 2x MN3005.
Newer ones have 4x MN3008.
The deluxe memory BOY, on the other hand, is the cool audio chips I think. (At least, I don't think they're Belling, but they're definitely not Panasonic.)
Reissues in the larger box switched between 2 x 3005 and 4 x 3008, all XO are 4 x 3008, all vintage are 2 x 3005 or in the 4 knob DMM, 4 x SAD1024.
DMM TT is 4 x 3005, TT500 is 4 x 3008.
Deluxe Toy & Boy are 4 x BL3208 Beilling.
4 x 3008 is the same as 2 x 3005 for all intents and purposes, slight difference, not enough to notice though. Yes biasing is harder if you don't have a scope on hand but can be done adequately with an audio probe, time and care. Using 3005s may be down to mojo, the fact it requires daughter boards or as you say, just a bit more difficult.
Any sound change between full deluxe memory man delays is likely down to design changes, if any occurred... can't really say as there aren't any traces of the newer ones, the schematics for the big box reissues are close enough apart from slight changes to the originals though. I would wager they sound damn close, Mike Matthews is known for not changing a good thing if he can avoid it... probably just the demos.
24V was the adapter, there was a -15V regulator internally, CMOS (4047 clock chip) and BBDs will die at much above.
Aquaboy is a DM-2/Aqua puss port so should be much the same.
Quotemike matthews not known for changes? i dont know if i can agree with that at all. there are sooo many variations among ehx pedals
Not quite what I said... I said not known if he can avoid it, i've seen a few designers say how he always thinks the first versions of products was the best and wants them to recreate that sound. Some times you have to change to meet the market expectations and part availability though.
Quoteman the new ones do not sound the same at all. i feel this way about pretty much all of the new ehx pedals in the XO enclosures... maybe those flimsy aluminum enclosures have all the tonez!
Many of these will have been redesigned to accommodate new features and also the NOS parts drying up.
Quote
anyone else out there compared a big box reissue (my favorite DMM was a big box reissue with the external wall wart- which i believe was a 9v adapter- maybe with a voltage increaser? not even sure if it was mn3005 or mn3008)
i dont know if ive played just the regular XO DMM though. maybe thats my ticket...
That may be the case, the other versions will have been changed for all the new tap tempo features etc.
Quotei've noticed tone differences between xo and big box ehx pedals on the pogs, microsynths, big muffs, small clone, and a few others i believe. And I dont think they are subtle... its not like a whole tonal shift, but all the new xo ones just dont sound as warm and fat, and they sound colder and dare I say 'more metallic' haha
for what its worth- ive also seen the metallic descriptor elsewhere. and i thought that before i read it.
The big box and xo pog are completely different designs so that's no surprise.
The microsynth had to be adapted from the CA3094 chips which are obsolete to the LM13700 so it's probably been substantially redesigned, the same applies to the Nano stone.
The big muffs... well they've always varied.
The neo clone (xo small clone) has been redesigned for the MN3207 BBD as the 3007 dry up.
Also, something that has changed is the originals tended to have quite low input impedance and as times changed, I would bet they're shifting them to higher input impedance which could help explain the 'metallic' sound you talk of as less tone is sucked.
So the examples you're giving are cases where the designs have had to change to stay in production, sad, but the way it has to be.
Don't ever stop posting here Scruffie.
I learn something every time that you post. 8)
Quote from: spaceboss on December 30, 2013, 04:19:29 PM
Don't ever stop posting here Scruffie.
I learn something every time that you post. 8)
*Blushes*
Thanks for the compliment :) hope some of it's useful!
so who thinks its time to petition one of our amazingly talented PCB designers to take on some 4xMN3008 delay circuits? Considering the most recent legit source on ebay sells them for $4 a piece in bulk... us broke guys could afford to start building DMM's for ourselves and friends!
There is a 4 x MN3008 etchable DMM layout by rusty pinto available online.
At 4 chips a pop though, any good source on ebay'll soon dry up like the 3005s.
Quote from: claytushaywood on January 13, 2014, 04:18:48 AM
so who thinks its time to petition one of our amazingly talented PCB designers to take on some 4xMN3008 delay circuits? Considering the most recent legit source on ebay sells them for $4 a piece in bulk... us broke guys could afford to start building DMM's for ourselves and friends!
I have one that I have yet to release.
Jacob
It's 2014 and we still don't have a digital delay IC that is through hole, and doesn't have the problems of the PT2399?!
Quote from: alanp on January 13, 2014, 06:23:19 AM
It's 2014 and we still don't have a digital delay IC that is through hole, and doesn't have the problems of the PT2399?!
That may be akin to asking for the latest movie in Betamax format. :). Most tech is shifting towards smd.
But even there, aside from the FV-1 there isn't a good SMD chip that we can/have seen used in DIY circles.
I think we need to hunt for a better digital chip. Even if it's SMD, we can get adapters to make it through hole. We should be able to at least replicate the DD-3 for goodness sake.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on January 13, 2014, 03:55:37 PM
But even there, aside from the FV-1 there isn't a good SMD chip that we can/have seen used in DIY circles.
I think we need to hunt for a better digital chip. Even if it's SMD, we can get adapters to make it through hole. We should be able to at least replicate the DD-3 for goodness sake.
Jacob
I wish there was a DE7 with a reliable switch.
Quote from: claytushaywood on January 13, 2014, 04:18:48 AM
talented PCB designers to take on some 4xMN3008 delay circuits? Considering the most recent legit source on ebay sells them for $4 a piece in bulk...
Don't tell me there are fake mn3008's... :o
Quote from: chromesphere on January 14, 2014, 02:56:55 AM
Quote from: claytushaywood on January 13, 2014, 04:18:48 AM
talented PCB designers to take on some 4xMN3008 delay circuits? Considering the most recent legit source on ebay sells them for $4 a piece in bulk...
Don't tell me there are fake mn3008's... :o
I'm pretty sure there are even fake modern production 3208s :-\
Quote from: Scruffie on January 14, 2014, 02:59:52 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on January 14, 2014, 02:56:55 AM
Quote from: claytushaywood on January 13, 2014, 04:18:48 AM
talented PCB designers to take on some 4xMN3008 delay circuits? Considering the most recent legit source on ebay sells them for $4 a piece in bulk...
Don't tell me there are fake mn3008's... :o
I'm pretty sure there are even fake modern production 3208s :-\
Ill just go ahead and cancel that order of 20 of each from Polida then :|
Edit: I'm late (very late) to the party with the whole BBD thing...its a minefield...
Quote from: Scruffie on January 13, 2014, 04:41:55 AM
There is a 4 x MN3008 etchable DMM layout by rusty pinto available online.
Hey scruffie have you got a link to this one? Had a search for rusty pinto
Quote from: chromesphere on January 14, 2014, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: Scruffie on January 13, 2014, 04:41:55 AM
There is a 4 x MN3008 etchable DMM layout by rusty pinto available online.
Hey scruffie have you got a link to this one? Had a search for rusty pinto
That sounds like it could come up with some unsavory results on google... :D
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=92799.0
Quote from: Scruffie on January 14, 2014, 04:27:27 PM
Quote from: chromesphere on January 14, 2014, 09:14:28 AM
Quote from: Scruffie on January 13, 2014, 04:41:55 AM
There is a 4 x MN3008 etchable DMM layout by rusty pinto available online.
Hey scruffie have you got a link to this one? Had a search for rusty pinto
That sounds like it could come up with some unsavory results on google... :D
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=92799.0
lol an aussie blues and roots band :o
Thanks so much for the link scruffie, appreciate it mate!
Paul
i wasnt saying that- i meant a reliable (well maybe not now with some recent posts i just read) mn3005 source sells the mn3008 for $4 a piece. if someone designed a 4x mn3008 delay it might actually take the market value of the mn3005's down!
by the way, i played the 550ms new deluxe memory man TT, and it is absolutely NOTHING like the early 2000's and 90's big box reissue DMM's. its even noisier, and the controls are terribly jumpy. The feedback and blend controls are just terrible.
i really cannot believe they are using NOS panasonic mn3005's. the 1100ms is less noisy on short delay times obviously- but man they just do not have the magicks of the old DMM's.
if ehx isnt full of it, i'm starting to believe in flimsy aluminum enclosure tonez... or maybe it could be another SMD or composition argument? ha!
The DMM TT550 uses 4 MN3008's.
I just remember my dad has an old beat up Ibanez AD-9 delay which im pretty sure will be either mn3005 or more likely mn3205? Sweet! 8)
Edit: Will make a good test unit if every I feel like mortgaging my left nut to buy some mn3005's :D