So, I finally got a chance to A/B my Sunking with my real Klon tonight at band practice. The Sunking sounds great, and I'll probably end up selling my real Klon, but before I do that I want to try and fix an issue that I noticed with the Sunking. The treble on the Sunking seems more harsh and brittle, or thin, than it sounds on the real Klon. From what I remember, I don't think I had any parts substitutions. I had to have the tone knob on my Sunking around 9 or 10 o'clock though, whereas I normally keep it closer to noon on my Klon, and again, the character of the treble just was a bit less pleasing to my ears. What can I do to fix this? I used BAT41 diodes, but I socketed them, so I was thinking about swapping those out tomorrow with some 1n34a's. Any other suggestions for what to do though?
Thanks in advance!
Try a 6n8 in place of the 3n9 treble cap.
Quote from: madbean on February 28, 2011, 04:49:04 AM
Try a 6n8 in place of the 3n9 treble cap.
I'll do that tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I'll try swapping out the diodes first to see if that makes a difference since switching out socketed diodes would be a lot easier than trying to remove that cap. Haha.
Yeah, desoldering that type of board is a challenge. If you don't have a desoldering pump (Radio Shack has them) then use a braid. I find that actually melting a little extra solder on the joints first sometimes helps when using the braid. Once you get the component out, if there's still some solder left that you can't get out, poke a resistor lead through it gently as you heat the pad. The solder will adhere to the lead and the hole will open. As long as you go slow and don't overheat the pad it should not tear out.
Holy hell. You need to make C15 6n8 stock. That sounds WAY closer to my Klon upon first inspection. Granted, I could only play for a few minutes before I had to be quiet for the night, but I was far happier with this new cap. It's still so crazy to think such a tiny part can make all the difference in the world. Either way, thanks for the awesome advice. I can't wait to A/B these pedals all afternoon tomorrow haha.
I have a friend who wanted me to build one of these for him, and I'm probably going to strongly recommend he goes with the 6n8 cap.
Thanks again!
tell us about the results :D
That's really cool to hear, esp. since I just pulled that value out of thin air 8)
Well, nice work on picking it out of thin air. It seems to work. Haha. The bass response is a bit closer to my Klon, and the treble seems less harsh with the added low end.
Before I would have said the clone was about 90-95% of the way to real Klon, but when switching out the cap I'd say it's closer to 95-99%. I really can't see myself keeping my real Klon much longer. Why would I need to when Madbean is on the case? Haha.
Thanks again for the awesome project!
Man I loves the interwebz! Just finished another Sunking build and this one definitely sounded a little harsher in the highs. And I had accidentally put a 4n7 in there. Just put a 6n8 and, even though it's too late to crank it, I can tell it put the tone knob in a much more useable range.
So I'll be making note of this on the parts list, layout, and scheme.
I'm glad i read this. Gonna socket it and try some more values. You think increasing it more (8n2 or 10nf) will add even more bass?
Quote from: bigmufffuzzwizz on March 06, 2011, 04:50:31 PM
I'm glad i read this. Gonna socket it and try some more values. You think increasing it more (8n2 or 10nf) will add even more bass?
I finally got to play the pedal at a louder volume. I used a guitar w/ humbuckers and one w/ P90s. The 6n8 definitely sounded better, but I had to have the tone knob at around 9:00 for a sound that I liked. at 12:00 it was still a little too bright. So I think I'm going to increase the cap again to something around the 10n range.
http://www.elexp.com/kit_csbk.htm
Seems like the perfect solution!
My ears are fried! I just put a socket in there and I finally decided on a .1uf in there. I'll have to check the other components b/c maybe I messed up somewhere else in the build, but I built one using madbean's v1 board and I noticed in that build the highs can be brittle and I would keep the tone at about 9:00. With the .1uf, I can have it closer to noon. And when dialing it down, there's a little more bass 'flexibility'. I'm not a huge fan of Tube Screamers w/ the Fat Switch (taking out one if the caps - I'm blanking on which one), but in the Klone build, I like the pedal to have a little more 'oomph' in the higher notes. Not too trebly, just a touch of lower frequencies. I dunno.
all these sunking's getting built is making me crazy. I finally ordered the parts for about 5 madbean boards this one included! definitely going with the diode switch and changing this cap to .1uf. maybe even larger.
Quote from: bigmufffuzzwizz on March 06, 2011, 10:31:37 PM
all these sunking's getting built is making me crazy. I finally ordered the parts for about 5 madbean boards this one included! definitely going with the diode switch and changing this cap to .1uf. maybe even larger.
Yeah, now that I socketed that cap, I guess I should try a much bigger value just for shits and giggles to hear how much difference there would be. 1uf after dinner perhaps.
Quote from: dap9 on March 06, 2011, 10:34:37 PM
1uf after dinner perhaps.
leaving overdrive territory? 8)
just to make sure: you got the memo about the error on the original board/instructions right?
(just noticed you said you were using the v1 board)
(http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=398.0;attach=149;image)
Thanks for catching that... But, I did get my previous v1 build (thanks to madbean himself) wired up properly. The build I'm talking about here is the most recent. Thanks, though! I like how DIY folks look out for each other.
Quote from: B_of_H on March 08, 2011, 11:28:01 PM
just to make sure: you got the memo about the error on the original board/instructions right?
(just noticed you said you were using the v1 board)
(http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=398.0;attach=149;image)
Hey folks I built mine as true bypass. Can anyone enlighten me as to why I should try the original way?
From what I understand it would be to buffer the line through multiple pedals?
Thanks team. If anyone has built both versions pipe up!
anyone?
I'm also curious as to why. Isn't this implementing a buffered relay system?
Interesting day. Fella I built a Sunking for brought his Centaur over so we could compare and contrast. We threw quite a few caps at it and ended up settling on a 8n2. It near as damnit hits the nail on the head. Certainly to the point where I was struggling to tell which on was running when back-to-backing them.
(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/klon%28e%29.jpg)
So I can stop looking out for 3n9 film caps? Thanks for that - I'd been subbing 3n3s without thinking very much about going the other way. Did you try going bigger? How was it?
Liam
Quote from: Liam on May 08, 2011, 07:58:47 PM
So I can stop looking out for 3n9 film caps? Thanks for that - I'd been subbing 3n3s without thinking very much about going the other way. Did you try going bigger? How was it?
Liam
I socketed it so I went way bigger ;-)
8n2 nailed the gold horsey. But I think I prefer going even slightly further with a 10n. 15n was about as far as you could go and it still sound really good, beyond that it could get flubby.
Quote from: juansolo on May 08, 2011, 07:47:42 PM
Interesting day. Fella I built a Sunking for brought his Centaur over so we could compare and contrast. We threw quite a few caps at it and ended up settling on a 8n2. It near as damnit hits the nail on the head. Certainly to the point where I was struggling to tell which on was running when back-to-backing them.
(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/klon%28e%29.jpg)
I remember a guy a few months back did the same experiment that you did and ended up with the same results. I'm pretty sure he settled on a 8.2n!
Quote from: juansolo on May 09, 2011, 05:47:09 AM
I socketed it so I went way bigger ;-)
8n2 nailed the gold horsey. But I think I prefer going even slightly further with a 10n. 15n was about as far as you could go and it still sound really good, beyond that it could get flubby.
Thanks for the advice Juansolo, will be trying a few caps on Thursday. Were your ears burning this afternoon? Turns out we've got a friend in common. Where are you getting 8n2s from - I've struggled!
Liam
Quote from: Liam on May 17, 2011, 09:33:42 PM
Quote from: juansolo on May 09, 2011, 05:47:09 AM
I socketed it so I went way bigger ;-)
8n2 nailed the gold horsey. But I think I prefer going even slightly further with a 10n. 15n was about as far as you could go and it still sound really good, beyond that it could get flubby.
Thanks for the advice Juansolo, will be trying a few caps on Thursday. Were your ears burning this afternoon? Turns out we've got a friend in common. Where are you getting 8n2s from - I've struggled!
Liam
:-o
The 8n2 would have come from one Farnell or Rapid I'd have thought. We had them in the stash so couldn't be sure which.
They came from Tayda, not for the Sunking, but ages ago for a Hot Silicon.
I'll preface this with the friend in common being EB from Juno. Diamond geezer of the first water, and he pieced it together straight away when I mentioned you. The world is amazingly small. Used to share an office with him at work, but he's in the next one along now (when he's not at Juno, which does tend to be the case). I've got a few mates work there, and a few more that used to.
Next thing... Got any 8n2 caps left? It would save me a USA order. I know that makes me a bit cheeky, but I'm quite intrigued to try a few more in a Sunking. I thought I'd heard every sort of overdrive pedal there was, but at gig volume the Sunkings (and I'm guessing Centaurs) have got something really interesting going for them. I've built 4 of them now, but I keep lending them out in a sort of "convert" sort of fashion. Thought I'd heard it all... Hadn't.
Liam
Quote from: Liam on May 18, 2011, 11:31:53 PM
I'll preface this with the friend in common being EB from Juno. Diamond geezer of the first water, and he pieced it together straight away when I mentioned you. The world is amazingly small. Used to share an office with him at work, but he's in the next one along now (when he's not at Juno, which does tend to be the case). I've got a few mates work there, and a few more that used to.
Next thing... Got any 8n2 caps left? It would save me a USA order. I know that makes me a bit cheeky, but I'm quite intrigued to try a few more in a Sunking. I thought I'd heard every sort of overdrive pedal there was, but at gig volume the Sunkings (and I'm guessing Centaurs) have got something really interesting going for them. I've built 4 of them now, but I keep lending them out in a sort of "convert" sort of fashion. Thought I'd heard it all... Hadn't.
Liam
Small world! I'm not sure I've ever spoken to Ewan face to face but we have on the phone and via e-mail. It's just a shame that this year due to holiday and work commitments we can't use the car more (though we'll still be managing Spa, Zandvoort, Silverstone & Croft in it).
Sorry about the 8n2s I've got one left and it's earmarked for the Sunking I've halfway through populating :( Need to order more myself. Tayda are cool though and the delivery is reasonable.
Likewise with the sunkiing. A mate fancied one, wasn't interested myself and thought that no pedal could live up to the hype that the Centaur receives. Built it, loved it. The second was for a guy with a real one who wanted to get it off his pedal board for fear of it being nicked. It was him who spotted that the tone wasn't quite right compared to his first edition one. It's not far out by any means, but a little. Swapping that cap made it so close it's nigh on indistinguishable. FWIW though, a 10n sounds pretty bloody good also. Gives it a fraction more bottom, but it's not a bad thing. Without back-to-backing them, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference. Not sure I can be arsed to change mine from the standard one to be fair. As I say, the difference isn't that massive. It's there, but it's really not as big as is made out.
Spa in a Juno has got to be a hoot. Have you seen the Youtube footage from the last round there? Very exciting. Ewan remembered you straight away and spoke very highly of you, so he's definitely remembered a conversation somewhere along the line.
My first couple of Sunking builds have 3n3 in for a tone cap, as I was struggling to find any 3n9. I quite like them like that - might even put a switch on my own one as the clarity is really useful. The last couple of builds have been held up by the lack of a Cleggy, followed by quite a bit of rubbing down and starting again. Bet I've spent more on Rover Cashmere Gold than I did on the boards, but I'm getting there. Just finished assembling one with 6n8 in it, and I'll give it a blast in the morning.
Liam
Quote from: Liam on May 20, 2011, 01:37:16 AM
Spa in a Juno has got to be a hoot. Have you seen the Youtube footage from the last round there? Very exciting. Ewan remembered you straight away and spoke very highly of you, so he's definitely remembered a conversation somewhere along the line.
My first couple of Sunking builds have 3n3 in for a tone cap, as I was struggling to find any 3n9. I quite like them like that - might even put a switch on my own one as the clarity is really useful. The last couple of builds have been held up by the lack of a Cleggy, followed by quite a bit of rubbing down and starting again. Bet I've spent more on Rover Cashmere Gold than I did on the boards, but I'm getting there. Just finished assembling one with 6n8 in it, and I'll give it a blast in the morning.
Liam
Spa in the Juno is indeed automotive nirvana. It's not to say we couldn't go quicker (Colin, who I co-own the car with does anyway), the vid on this page (http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/motas/juno6.html) has me lifting for Blancimont and Eau Rouge, which in the Juno you don't need to, and generally braking well early. Mainly because it's a trackday and going balls out all the time simply isn't necessary. Plus the speed differential between the Juno and just about every other car out there is vast anyway. Saying that, a bit more bravery this year hopefully (and the camera should be much more securely mounted)... We shall see. It'll be a sad day when we have to sell that one. It is just a magnificent machine.
Oh god painting. I tried, a couple of times. Similar results. It looks so easy, yet my results are always utter crap. there is some sort of voodoo involved I'm sure of it.