Hi all, which of the above 2 is the preferred build? I know it's apples and oranges, no pun intended, but which of the 2 satisfies the following:
1. Transparency
2. Balanced frequency response
3. Good snap for country twang
Thanks all!
Why not both???
Quote from: Pedro Fontacos on July 30, 2013, 05:01:19 AM
Hi all, which of the above 2 is the preferred build? I know it's apples and oranges, no pun intended, but which of the 2 satisfies the following:
1. Transparency
2. Balanced frequency response
3. Good snap for country twang
Thanks all!
#1 is a very, very poorly defined buzz word in the guitar pedal community. It could mean several things with a compressor: can't tell it's on, unobtrusive/non-obvious compression (low ratio, long decay, etc.), full-range frequency response, probably some things I'm forgetting.
"Snap" could also mean a lot of things. Do you want the compression to feel "springy" like tube amp sag? Or are you looking to keep your pick attack?
The Afterlife is optical. The Orange Squeezer uses a FET. The Afterlife has a longer attack (as long as 20ms), while the Orange Squeezer will turn on within one and a half wave cycles (less than 10ms usually). The Afterlife has a long decay (as long as 2s, but it's somewhat poorly defined) while the orange squeezer's is pretty short at 470ms. The Afterlife has an adjustable ratio/gain control without modifications so it will work better with several different guitars with the controls meant to go on the outside (you can add one to the Orange Squeezer). The Afterlife is usually a slightly quieter build without any extra work. Both have a similar frequency response, but the Squeezer tends to swallow the highs a bit more while compressing. The Afterlife is more expensive to build but easier to get working right.
Quote from: midwayfair on July 30, 2013, 01:24:54 PMThe Afterlife is more expensive to build but easier to get working right.
Just because of the need to dial in accurately the trim pot on the Squeezer (otherwise it functions more like a boost, as I have read), or is there another reason?
Quote from: croquet hoop on July 30, 2013, 01:57:42 PM
Quote from: midwayfair on July 30, 2013, 01:24:54 PMThe Afterlife is more expensive to build but easier to get working right.
Just because of the need to dial in accurately the trim pot on the Squeezer (otherwise it functions more like a boost, as I have read), or is there another reason?
In part it's the pain of getting the trimpot dialed in satisfactorily. But there can be other things ... sometimes the OS requires a gain adjustment compress. Adjusting the trimpot for the amount of compression you get won't help if your guitar pickups are too weak to get over the threshold in the first place. My tele in particular will barely trigger an OS at all.
If memory serves well, it's something that does not affect the Opto FET "squeezer", right ?
Quote from: jimilee on July 30, 2013, 12:30:45 PM
Why not both???
If I had all the time In the world, I would!
Quote from: midwayfair on July 30, 2013, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: Pedro Fontacos on July 30, 2013, 05:01:19 AM
Hi all, which of the above 2 is the preferred build? I know it's apples and oranges, no pun intended, but which of the 2 satisfies the following:
1. Transparency
2. Balanced frequency response
3. Good snap for country twang
Thanks all!
#1 is a very, very poorly defined buzz word in the guitar pedal community. It could mean several things with a compressor: can't tell it's on, unobtrusive/non-obvious compression (low ratio, long decay, etc.), full-range frequency response, probably some things I'm forgetting.
"Snap" could also mean a lot of things. Do you want the compression to feel "springy" like tube amp sag? Or are you looking to keep your pick attack?
The Afterlife is optical. The Orange Squeezer uses a FET. The Afterlife has a longer attack (as long as 20ms), while the Orange Squeezer will turn on within one and a half wave cycles (less than 10ms usually). The Afterlife has a long decay (as long as 2s, but it's somewhat poorly defined) while the orange squeezer's is pretty short at 470ms. The Afterlife has an adjustable ratio/gain control without modifications so it will work better with several different guitars with the controls meant to go on the outside (you can add one to the Orange Squeezer). The Afterlife is usually a slightly quieter build without any extra work. Both have a similar frequency response, but the Squeezer tends to swallow the highs a bit more while compressing. The Afterlife is more expensive to build but easier to get working right.
Thank you so much for the detailed response Jon.
Re: transparency, I'm ultimately looking for something that's not going to kill the highs. I consider the basic MXR DynaComp to be pretty transparent but with a scooped response which I don't like. I consider the boss CS3 to be flatter but it kills the highs.
I definitely do like the springy response when the compression is turned up. If the attack can be preserved by turning compression down then that would be ideal.
I don't mind spending a few dollars more if there's less required tweaking and the additional volume control.
So is it your experience that building the Afterlife exactly according to the build document is sufficient?
Thanks Jon,
Quote from: Pedro Fontacos on July 30, 2013, 03:34:32 PM
Re: transparency, I'm ultimately looking for something that's not going to kill the highs.
The problem is that all compression reduces treble while compressing full frequency ranges. You therefore have only a couple choices in that matter: (1) Boost the highs, which makes it sound less "transparent" at lower compression settings; (2) bypass some amount of treble so that it's never compressed (which sounds funny and thins out your sound, rather than beefing it up, while compressing); (3) use parallel compression and a blend circuit, which has its own issues (e.g. I find a blend with an orange squeezer -- like what JHS does -- to be incredibly pointless because the
only thing it does is sag the front of the note).
QuoteI definitely do like the springy response when the compression is turned up. If the attack can be preserved by turning compression down then that would be ideal.
"Attack" is complicated, and sometimes set in ways that we can't alter. The Afterlife's attack is set by the LDR in the vactrol itself -- the feature you want to look up in the datasheet is turn-on time. Some vactrols are faster than others in turning on or turning off. In the orange squeezer, it's set by the 1.5K resistor just after the germanium diode. Altering that can also affect the threshold in some small manner. It's of dubious utility to mess with it.
A slow attack actually gives the appearance of
retaining your pick attack under certain circumstances. But the decay also plays a role, because you're not going to get your pick attack from any compressor on every note unless you're using a blend control. And if you want a spongy feel, a blend knob is the opposite. You can't have everything from any effect.
QuoteSo is it your experience that building the Afterlife exactly according to the build document is sufficient?
Building either stock is "sufficient"; if you're talking about getting the absolute most you can out of any build, it might require deviating from the proscribed parts. I mod almost everything I make to some extent, even my own designs ...
Quote from: midwayfair on July 30, 2013, 04:31:52 PM
Quote from: Pedro Fontacos on July 30, 2013, 03:34:32 PM
Re: transparency, I'm ultimately looking for something that's not going to kill the highs.
The problem is that all compression reduces treble while compressing full frequency ranges. You therefore have only a couple choices in that matter: (1) Boost the highs, which makes it sound less "transparent" at lower compression settings; (2) bypass some amount of treble so that it's never compressed (which sounds funny and thins out your sound, rather than beefing it up, while compressing); (3) use parallel compression and a blend circuit, which has its own issues (e.g. I find a blend with an orange squeezer -- like what JHS does -- to be incredibly pointless because the only thing it does is sag the front of the note).
QuoteI definitely do like the springy response when the compression is turned up. If the attack can be preserved by turning compression down then that would be ideal.
"Attack" is complicated, and sometimes set in ways that we can't alter. The Afterlife's attack is set by the LDR in the vactrol itself -- the feature you want to look up in the datasheet is turn-on time. Some vactrols are faster than others in turning on or turning off. In the orange squeezer, it's set by the 1.5K resistor just after the germanium diode. Altering that can also affect the threshold in some small manner. It's of dubious utility to mess with it.
A slow attack actually gives the appearance of retaining your pick attack under certain circumstances. But the decay also plays a role, because you're not going to get your pick attack from any compressor on every note unless you're using a blend control. And if you want a spongy feel, a blend knob is the opposite. You can't have everything from any effect.
QuoteSo is it your experience that building the Afterlife exactly according to the build document is sufficient?
Building either stock is "sufficient"; if you're talking about getting the absolute most you can out of any build, it might require deviating from the proscribed parts. I mod almost everything I make to some extent, even my own designs ...
Thanks Jon, I'm building an Afterlife exactly according to the build doc, ill let you know how it comes out!