Buying Parts in Bulk-WHAT TO BUY?!?!?!?!?

[PaxWorks]

My Wife is letting me use $300.00 from our tax return to buy parts in bulk to build pedals. I have yet to prototype or build a pedal, so I'm a complete noob. I was Looking at Small Bears parts kits, wondering what I should get. I was hoping some of the more experienced builders could me help make a comprehensive list. What do ya think?

[jkokura]

Yikes what a huge question!

The most expensive parts are the PCBs and enclosures. Next is the switches and some ICs.

With your 300 are you looking for basic stock or are you wanting parts for specific pedals? I would need more than 300 for basic stock, but I could get 6 or so finished pedals out of 300 bucks.

Jacob

[PaxWorks]

I'm mainly looking to have a basic stock so I can build any time i want. If I have to order swtiches and enclosures thats okay, I just want to be able to begin prototyping.

[gtr2]

This thread has some info that might help..  http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=66.0

Josh

[eniacmike]

I would buy bulk xicon metal film resistors in 200 qt. bags.

47
100
470
1k
1.5k
2.2k
4.7k
10k
33k
37k
47k
100k
470k
1M
2.2M
60 $ right there, fill in the rest of the values as needed per pedal you want to build, but that will cover most of the stuff you build. for months-a year.

If you don't care about metal film or building a bunch of pedals you can get a resistor assortment at radio shack for $10 of carbon comp resistors that will keep you going for months.

caps
get the topmay box cap set from small bear
thats $15
but you might want to stock up on the most popular values I would get bags of 100 for
100nF, 22nF, 47nF. (if you plan on doing alot of builds 10 each from the box cap set won't cover you) you also want to get 10 each of these values not included in the 1MF, 68nF, 56nF.

you can get the electrolytic assortment from small bear but they are only rated to 16v so if you plan on making any 18v effects they won't work.

http://www.apogeekits.com/electrolytic_capacitors.htm 12.95
this is probably a better kit. most commonly used sizes are 10uF, 47uF, and 100uF for me, it wouldn't hurt to get a bag of 25 each extra of those.

small value capacitors 12.95
http://www.apogeekits.com/ceramic_capacitors.htm I got one of these when I was first starting and I am only now starting to run out of popular values like 100pF and 220pF. Actually if you don't care about mojo you can just get this and skip the box caps.

radio shack sells a bag of assorted NPN transistors (i think it's 25 of popular values.) for maybe $5 it has 2n2222, 2n3904, 2n4401, 2n5088.
other popular ones are 2n5089, 2n7000 mosfets, bs170 mosfets, 2n5457 jfets everything else is pretty specific to certain effects.

diodes, you want to get 1n4148, 1n400x, 1n34a, 9.1v zeners, leds (radio shack has an assortment bag for $5)

jameco electronics has alot of "grab bags" too.

diystompboxes.org has some good grab bags i'd get the 1n4001 didoes, 1n34a, 1n4148 diodes, j201 jfets.

I guess for pots my most used values are 1kb, 10ka, 10kb, 100ka, 100kb, 1Ma, 1Mb. but you end up using all sorts of values depending on the project.

as far as ic's, pots, switches, enclosures it doesn't make alot of sense to "stock up" on those unless you know what you are going to build. make a list of the projects you want to do and order for those projects. obviously you can get a price break on things like jacks, dc jacks, 9v snaps, led's, led bezels if you order quantities of 25.

[jkokura]

I had a bit of thinking to do before I came up with an answer. I had to think about - what do I wish I did years ago but didn't do? Recently I had to do a big restock, and I spent much more than 300 bucks to do it. The caps alone were almost 250 - I got nearly 3000 of them, but still.

Anyway, Mike's got some good suggestions, and you could go that route. I would say that there's better options for resistors - I got 3000 resistors from Hong Kong for 9 bucks plus shipping a couple months ago. Took a while to get here, but that's RIDICULOUSLY cheap. They're usable, 1% metal film, and sound fine in pedals to my ears. But I do second the Topmay Box films from Small bear. However, if you work out the price of the caps, it is MUCH much cheaper to get them in bulk bags of 100. But if you were to get a good amount of caps in quantities that make the best fiscal sense, you're still paying 150-250 bucks like I did. Then you still have to think about PCB's, sockets, transistors, diodes, IC's, enclosures, jacks, switches, LED's and any other sort of strange part you might need when getting into a particular pedal.

SO... my suggestion now is this. HOLD OFF on spending your 300 bucks like crazy. Instead, get out your spreadsheet, or in the least PM me and I'll help you do the spreadsheeting, and make a BOM for your first choice in pedal building. Do the same thing for choice two and three - come up with BOM's for your top three choices in pedal building. Use small bear's prices on individual quantities for each part. For example, when I do that for a Rebote 2.5, the price ends up being about 50 bucks, for a Tubescreamer it's about 40, and when I price out a Phase 90 I'd say around 45. So there you go, three pedals will cost me about 135 bucks to build, not including the shipping for whatever I buy - my parts are from Smallbear, my PCB's are from GGG or Tonepad, and my enclosures and switches are from Pedal Parts plus, so shipping will probably be a bunch because I get them from a few places.

Now what I would do is condense those three lists down into 1 list. Notice how some of the parts overlap? Now you might need 15 10k resistors instead of just 5 for each pedal. Some parts you'll only need 1 or 2 of, but in most cases multiple pedals have parts that overlap. In all cases where you need at least 3 or 4 or 5 of something GET IT IN BULK. Here are all my suggestions by part type.

Resistors - either do what Mike suggested above, or go the route of getting a ridiculous amount of resistors from Hong Kong for much cheaper than you can imagine. and then fill in the gaps with the more expensive bags of 200 from Mouser. For about 40 or 50 bucks you can get 3-5 THOUSAND resistors - that's the easy part. I think including shipping to Canada I paid 2/3 of a cent each for my resistor pack - at smallbear the price per resistor is like 20 cents... and from mouser they're like 11 cents each until you hit 200. (I think... don't quote me)

Caps - Take a look at the list of caps you need for the three pedals (remember the BOM?) and then buy bags of 100 from Smallbear. For 8-14 bucks you can get a bag of 100 caps ($.08-.14 each) rather than pay the $.25-35 each if you buy them individually. You can't find a better deal than that on Mouser just so you know. I buy the Topmay box caps for values between .001uF/1nF and 1uF/1000nF. Also use Smallbear for bags of 100 panasonic film caps for values between 100pF and 820pF. For Ceramic Cap values between 5pF and 91pF go to Mouser. I can get you a link, but you can get a variety pack for Electrolytic caps from a place on Ebay for pretty cheap. That should take care of caps. Get the ones you need for those three projects. Then, everytime you need to build a new pedal and there's another value you don't have, order a bag of 100 from Smallbear or from Mouser or wherever. You'll spend a fraction of the money long term. Don't worry about getting all the values right now, just get the ones you need right now for those three pedals.

For transistors and Diodes - for the most part go to Mouser. If you need 5 2N5088's as an example, you can get 25 of them at mouser for the same or less price as you would pay at Smallbear for those same transistors. In some cases, getting 50 of a particular type of transistor helps, like 2N5254's for Phase 90's - you have to match them, so getting a much larger portion of them will help in the long run than if you just get the 2 or 4 the project calls for. For diodes - I got a pack of 500 1n4001's, 500 1N914's and 250 1N4148's from Mouser for LESS money than getting 25 of each from Smallbear would cost me. In some cases, getting from Smallbear makes sense, and I LOVE to support Steve @ Smallbear when it doesn't matter, but in lots of cases getting them from Mouser can be ridiculously cheap in comparison. For other things like 1N400x values you can get 25 or 100 from Mouser, or for 1N270 or 1N34a Ge Diodes you might have to get them in smaller quantities from somewhere else. The same holds true for Ge Transistors. As they're becoming harder to find, you'll pay more for them. For example, I paid for more for 15 1N34a diodes than I did for 250 1N4148 diodes... But the clipping is worth it! (Steve, the guy who runs Smallbear, is a legend and one of the best people I've ever encountered in supporting DIY guys. He started by recognizing a niche, and he supports the Boutique builders AND the little DIY'ers like us. He should be the first place you go to IMHO).

LED's - I get them in packs of 200 with 5 different colors from the same place I get my electrolytic caps from. Same price for 3mm or 5mm. So it's like 5 bucks for 400 - 200 in each size.

Enclosures and Stomp Switches - I like to get my 3PDT switches from Pedal Parts plus. It's where I get my enclosures too, because I get them pre powder coated. Unless you really like the DIY painting, the price of a can of spraypaint can be more than twice the cost of Pedal Parts Plus doing the powdercoating for you. Plus the powder coating comes in a HUGE variety of colours, is really really durable and happens pretty fast. I would get a good amount of 3PDT switches (10-20), you'll use them and it's better to have a couple spares when you're just starting to learn to solder. Only buy the Enclosures you need for the pedals you want to build now. Having a stock of them just turns into spending more money now that you should use on other parts. Also, shipping on enclosures and switches is more because they're larger, and heavier than any other parts.

PCB's - get them from Brian here at Madbean, I hear Barry over at Guitar PCB's is a standup bloke, and GGG, BYOC and Tonepad boards are also quality projects to work on. Some guys etch their own, but you don't have enough money to launch into that right now unless you have the stuff lying around already. I don't etch my own boards cause I don't want to spend the money on startup for it.

Toggle Switches, IC's, Jacks and miscellaneous parts - For Toggle switches and Jacks I go to Smallbear. Get 10 and the price comes down, so get 10 each of SPDT, DPDT, Mono switchcraft, and stereo switchcraft jacks. Also get 10 battery snaps, 10 power jacks (use the insulated large black kind, I like the exterior nut on mine), and 10 each of the 8 pin and 16 pin sockets. It might be a good idea for you to get a few single line sockets as well, especially for the transistor spots on your project. The hardest part about making pedals is debugging, and sockets make it a LOT easier. IC's is a bit of a toss up really - smallbear has good prices on some, Mouser has better prices on others. But you can't find all the IC's you need at Mouser, so I prefer to get all of them at Smallbear.

Really it comes down to this - buy the biggest amount of something it takes to get the price you need. For example - don't buy 1 zener diode at 45 cents when you can get 10 of them at 15 cents each. However, if it takes 100 before the price comes down on them, then DON'T buy more than a couple more than you need. Don't buy anything you won't ever need further down the road but buy LOTS of whatever you use often. Take that big BOM list and buy quantities that make sense from that list - lots where it's a common part, two or three when it's an uncommon part.

Hope that makes sense. I will be available either by PM or by Email for personal consultation if you or anyone else has questions, or want help trying to figure out how to do ANY of this.

Jacob

PS... I build at least 2-4 pedals a month. Maybe not as much as Mike, but enough. I have probably built 50-65 pedals over the last couple years. A LOT of tubescreamers honestly. If I think about how much money I wasted, I really wish I had done EXACTLY what I describe above. All due respect to the other answers though - they're not bad ones. This is just what I wish I had someone tell me to do.

[jkokura]

Oh yeah - Pots.

I like Smallbear because they get cheaper when you buy more. If you consider that building the Rebote, Tubescreamer and Phase 90 you need 7 pots. One of those is a special pot in the tubescreamer, so it's really 6 plus 1.

So when you get 6 pots at smallbear, it's like 1.25 each. But if you get 10 it's 1 each. So for 6x1.25 you're paying 7.5 bucks, but for 10 you're paying 10. You're getting a free pot when you buy 10. So buy 10! Maybe think ahead and consider a fourth and/or fifth pedal, or perhaps get spares of the values you buy. Always think like that - how much can I get without spending too much money and getting the most value.

Get 25 pots from smallbear and the price goes down again I think...

Jacob

[irmcdermott]

i would get your pots from Mammoth...

$0.90 16mm alpha pots. they don't have every value and taper known to mankind, but you will find most of what you need

http://www.mammothelectronics.com/category-s/46.htm

fast and reasonable shipping.

if you don't mind waiting a long time to get it, check out the value packs from futurlec, mainly the cap ones, i got them. super slow, but not a bad price if you don't mind the wait. their poly film caps are like 15 cents a pop and are WIMA and whatever the yellow ones are (AVX, i think?). i stocked up a while back and still have quite a bit.

http://www.futurlec.com/ValuePacks.shtml

http://www.futurlec.com/CapPolyFilm.shtml

[jkokura]

i would get your pots from Mammoth...

$0.90 16mm alpha pots. they don't have every value and taper known to mankind, but you will find most of what you need

http://www.mammothelectronics.com/category-s/46.htm

fast and reasonable shipping.

Everyone seems to be in love with Mammoth these days! I can't go anywhere without seeing Mammoth now mentioned. They're new, so I'm not as familiar with them, but I have been through their site.

Personally, I'd rather support Steve at Smallbear - the little guy, almost the same prices, and his service department is EXCELLENT. I've been reading Mammoth's small print, and I'm not impressed. They seem like a corporation.

That said, people have been having good success using them - fast shipping and quality products. I won't say I'll never use them, but at the savings of 10 cents a pot...

If you're going to make an order from Smallbear, You may as well get your pots there too, cause if you order from Mammoth you'll have to pay an additional shipping charge. If you're not getting anything from Smallbear, try Mammoth. i might also.

Ian, I'm not trying to offend you or anything. You've obviously had a good experience, so I can appreciate that. However, it seems like Mammoth has shown up in the past few weeks, and everyone's jumping from quality places like Smallbear or PPP to Mammoth and I'm a little wary of things like that.

Jacob

[madbean]

I don't really have anything to add, because Jacob and Mike have covered just about everything. But, I will hint that you can expect at least some parts to be available at madbeanpedals early next year. I haven't figured the scope of it yet, but I can promise the pricing will be reasonably competitive.

[eniacmike]

mammoth is the same company as 4site.
http://www.4siteelectronics.com/index.html
http://www.mammothelectronics.com/

[irmcdermott]

Ian, I'm not trying to offend you or anything. You've obviously had a good experience, so I can appreciate that. However, it seems like Mammoth has shown up in the past few weeks, and everyone's jumping from quality places like Smallbear or PPP to Mammoth and I'm a little wary of things like that.

Jacob

Hey man,

I'm not offended or anything, so no worries there. I've ordered from Steve, I order from PPP, Mouser, Jameco, Futurelec, Mammoth, etc. It totally depends on what I need. Every place has it's positives and negatives. One big negative for me is that Steve's 3PDT switches are $9, but he's got such a great selection on ICs, transistors, knobs, etc. After taking it out of the wrapper, I wasn't too thrilled with the 125B I got from Mammoth, but if all I was missing for a build were pots, then yeah, I'd for sure order from them. If I want to buy resistors in bulk I'll go to Mouser or Jameco. If all I need is a bunch of enclosures and switches, I do to PPP. If I find a new project and I just want to go buy everything I need from 1 source, I go to Steve, because he's really the best for that.

And I totally agree with with ordering as much from one place as possible. Because in the end, shipping is usually where you see the biggest savings.

[masterlk]

Can a few of you experienced parts folks chime in on this deal? From looking at a few other posts and this one it looks like most of the values are represented here. The deal is really good like .006 per resistor, that includes shipping. Any reason not to buy these? Just a newbie and this "looks" like a good deal. It also has a "make offer" so you could offer less.

Thanks

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-4W-0-25W-1-Metal-Film-Resistor-Kit-2500pcs-50-values-/260691215092?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb26842f4

[jkokura]

It looks alright. Some of the values will never get used, but some would be. Used often and run out quick. It's a good starting set though.

Jacob

[bigmufffuzzwizz]

Check out futurlec for cheap caps and metal film resistors. i think its 30 for a dollar!!! and they have cheap bc 108/109's!!! tayda electronics has really cheap green caps and resistors (50 for a dollar!)